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Old 03-19-2007, 10:17 PM   #496
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Hi,

I created a Poll and added the link to it in my signature. The Poll is designed to allow people to select what they think we should do about this issue from a list of options.
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:26 AM   #497
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So far, here are the results after 21 votes.

1. We should bann foam tires and traction additives. : 3
2. We should bann traction additives but keep foam tires. : 9
3. We should use rubber tires with traction additives. 1
4. We should do nothing. 23 3 4. We should do nothing. : 3
5. We should force track owners to install better ventilation systems and NOT bann foam tires or chemical traction additivies : 5

You can click on the Poll link in my signature and then on "view results" to see the most up to date results.
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Old 03-20-2007, 07:38 AM   #498
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Nice poll Martin...at least its some hard data for ROAR to consider...
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Old 03-20-2007, 07:56 AM   #499
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I personally voted against traction compounds and to keep foam tires.
I don't see any way to get rid of foam tires since so many cars/other classes use foam tires only.

I do think that truing stations need to be set up so that tire dust is kept away or exposure is only for those that actually use foam tires.


Take note that this is only an issue for indoor events where these this just become overwhelming for some people.

Last edited by Francis M.; 03-20-2007 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:14 AM   #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
Nice poll Martin...at least its some hard data for ROAR to consider...

Thanks Carl. Whatever the data turns out to be, should be good info for ROAR to consider.
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:14 AM   #501
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Maybe you could add to your poll? Develop or find a traction compound that is safer.
And has no smell.
I actually saw a guy from the old days using 10/w30 motor oil on a 12th scale and it worked fine. He said thats how we used to do it.
You could ban it all together. But the popular vote will be to keep it.
(FOAMS) out doors I don't sauce any way. And the tires don't wear as fast, as when I sauce them. So NO sauce is good as far as the wear of the tire. On carpet the sauce is needed to get the traction up, but the trade off could be as simple as buying a softer compound tire. Testing would have to show the difference to make an informed judgment. That would prove the necessity of whether or not compounds are really needed. And it would be important to leave lap times out of the test because we would all have the same advantage and disadvantage. This would be a temporary solution till a safer compound and approved compound could be developed.
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:54 AM   #502
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Yeah i dont like any of the given options. I think we need a ban volitile compounds and create safe traction compounds line.
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Old 03-20-2007, 09:33 AM   #503
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Our local Health Department almost shutdown the "Chili Bowl" race (indoors, midget sprints) when the spectators complained about the smoke/fumes from the engines. The organizer responded by getting better ventilation.

Maybe contacting local Health Depts. to "visit" and take an air sample, and determine if it is unhealthy would be a way to determine it's "toxcitity". Of course they would be sampling all of the sources, traction sauce, tire truing, and motor spray, and might not be able to "finger" a single source.

Yes, I know, this runs the risk of having the track shutdown, and then no one has a place to race.

Knowledge will allow all to make an informed decision.

Just my .02
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:11 AM   #504
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Personally, (from a health point of view) the obvious choices are to only allow a list of tested non toxic additives, or to ban the use of them.

Being in the UK its been a fair few years since i've heard of someone getting side affects from the use of additives, due to the BRCA rules we race to.

Personally I think yes, we should all be careful to a certain degree, but if something is known to be toxic it should be banned, regardless of if it smells good or bad.

You shouldnt have to compromise your health to go racing is the bottom line. You wouldnt marshal without shoes on would you?....

How often do you flush a motor out compared to saucing your tyres? Usually you would sauce the tyres more, so that doesnt add to any argument in my eyes.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:42 AM   #505
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I will put the "less toxic" chemical option up there. However my concern with that option is that all chemicals are toxic if the exposure is strong enough.

Last year I worked with a company called Tracktac that produces traction compounds for karting, stock car and oval dirt car racing (1:1 scale). They sent me a full line of products to try. Here is a quote from a post I made a year ago describing why I wanted to try this product...

Quote:
I just got off the phone with the Tracktac company and they have an approach that can get around your point. There is a HMIS (hazardous materials information sheet?) safety rating in the us that rates how toxic these chemical are on a scale of 0 to 4. with 0 being the least toxic. Tracktac does not use any chemicals with a rating greater than 1. So the manufactures could infact advertise that they don't exceed leve 0 or level 1 or whatever as a way to differentiate their product in the market.
So I tested all the products in a controlled manner and found that a couple of the products were not too bad in terms of grip. None are as good as paragon, jack or niftech for grip.

BUT....

I can tell you that these "safer" chemicals still made me as sick as the Jack compound. Now yes I am more senstive than most, but perhaps that is a good thing as it allows us to more quickly determine the chemicals that are likely to have health issues. The owner of tracktac was very helpful and shared some knowledge about these chemicals with me. He did state that prolonged exposure is still not healthy with any chemical.
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Old 03-20-2007, 10:59 AM   #506
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Martin,

I know you may have posted this already, but what type of reaction do you have when spending a day at Fastcats, which is odorless only I believe. Is it as serious, or even similar to what happens from paragon?
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:00 AM   #507
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Martin - Do oil based compounds cause an adverse reaction in you? Stuff like Tire Tweak? Its not as good as Paragon but it will work on rubber and foam tires on carpet.
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:12 AM   #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby Flack
Martin,

I know you may have posted this already, but what type of reaction do you have when spending a day at Fastcats, which is odorless only I believe. Is it as serious, or even similar to what happens from paragon?

Hey Bobby...good to hear from you.

On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being what I experienced at the Nats, fastcats is about a 3. For example I was more sick in just a half day at the nats than I was after a full 2.5 days of racing all weekend during our last big race at fastcats (the magma race) with I think about 120 people. I still get sick after a big race at fastcats, and a little stuffed up after a 1 day race, but nothing like a big paragon race.
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:14 AM   #509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
Martin - Do oil based compounds cause an adverse reaction in you? Stuff like Tire Tweak? Its not as good as Paragon but it will work on rubber and foam tires on carpet.
Hey Adrian,

I have never tried tire tweek indoors. I used it for the first time at the worlds this summer and found it irritated my skin a little but not as bad as jack or certainly paragon. Because of the good ventilation and no foam tire cutting when I was ther for the TC round I did not get sick at the worlds.

I have not done enough testing with it to really know, but it does seem more promising than jack/niftech or paragon...at least for me.

M
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:18 AM   #510
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I think we should all use sun tan lotion. It is made to be put on your skin in the first place and it actually does work alright. Our local club used it for a few years without any adverse effects. I think using an oil based product like tire tweek is not good for us either.

What would you guys think about sun tan lotion?
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