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Old 03-17-2007, 07:43 PM   #466
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Originally Posted by RCMits
minus the isoprop alky, add some ice, and maybe a splash of oj...

cheers!

wouldn't OJ just make it bloody ???????? sorry bad OJ joke
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Old 03-17-2007, 08:43 PM   #467
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Originally Posted by billjacobs
CypressMidWest-> If you don't like this thread, you don't have to read it. Same argument people make about not racing if you don't like paragon. (makes sense doesn't it?)
Ya know what? You're right. Enjoy the spirited debate......
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Old 03-17-2007, 10:50 PM   #468
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I have read every post in this thread and I still haven't seen any proof that exposure to traction compounds a few hours a week is dangerous. I read some reports of headachs... a couple of nose bleed reports and one serious reaction to a lot of chemicals (Martin)
Paragon has been used for ... what.. 20 plus years? Shouldn't we have seen more problems surfacing by now? Hearsay isn't a very scientific method and shouldn't be used to condemn a product. None of us are experts in this Field and yet we all like talk we know for sure one way or the other... maybe the smartest approach would be for ROAR to have some testing done on the products in question and receive some advice from Medical experts in this field?
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Old 03-17-2007, 11:57 PM   #469
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lets just say alot of what we do to ourselfs is bad for us, and to some it hurts them more than others,
is there a god , theres no real proof of this and iv never seen any.
is there ufo's
ppl from other worlds,dont have proof of this
do governments have something to hide , we dont have real proof of the lies and cover ups
but i be leave all this is real.
a little extreme and to the left but i think the chemicals we use not just in rc but day to day life hurts use.
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Old 03-18-2007, 06:30 AM   #470
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Originally Posted by ottoman
... maybe the smartest approach would be for ROAR to have some testing done on the products in question and receive some advice from Medical experts in this field?
A very smart post indeed.
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Old 03-18-2007, 11:31 AM   #471
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I am not sold that Oil of Wintergreen is the culprit either. Synthetic or Natural....both are used in NUMEROUS consumer products. I found multiple candles that have a decent concentrate of synthetic oil of wintergreen in them. I even found a website where a guy rubbed multiple things on his face to help deal with some sort of redness he was experiencing, one of which was synthetic oil of wintergreen.

I am wondering, if its possible that the people sometimes effected by it are possibly just allergic to it. That happens and not much can be done about it.

I still think if we are going to ban or change anything first, it should be the gas we use in gas engines. The stuff is highly toxic, bad for the enviroment, and certainly not good on the lungs, indoors or outdoors, but in the quest for speed.....we use a nasty nasty fuel, while there is plenty of clean burning fuels that could be used.....but we might go a little slower.

All I know is, even with a $10k fan and a huge building, I got watery eyes and a headache from the fumes.....

It's a tough subject really with the traction compounds.....ban one and yer targeting a company with no proof....just a theory. Ban them all, we install a huge mechanism for cheating all over the place (please quit with the chemical sniffer thing, the things are $2,000 min for a very very basic one from what I have researched)....

Later EddieO
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Old 03-18-2007, 12:08 PM   #472
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or you can just leve the hobby like me....I bet that just one person leaving a local track will cost that track $2000 over the course of a year.....just in case you are looking for a business case to invest in other options to make things safer for people.
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Old 03-18-2007, 12:20 PM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieO
I am not sold that Oil of Wintergreen is the culprit either. Synthetic or Natural....both are used in NUMEROUS consumer products. I found multiple candles that have a decent concentrate of synthetic oil of wintergreen in them. I even found a website where a guy rubbed multiple things on his face to help deal with some sort of redness he was experiencing, one of which was synthetic oil of wintergreen.

I am wondering, if its possible that the people sometimes effected by it are possibly just allergic to it. That happens and not much can be done about it.

I still think if we are going to ban or change anything first, it should be the gas we use in gas engines. The stuff is highly toxic, bad for the enviroment, and certainly not good on the lungs, indoors or outdoors, but in the quest for speed.....we use a nasty nasty fuel, while there is plenty of clean burning fuels that could be used.....but we might go a little slower.

All I know is, even with a $10k fan and a huge building, I got watery eyes and a headache from the fumes.....

It's a tough subject really with the traction compounds.....ban one and yer targeting a company with no proof....just a theory. Ban them all, we install a huge mechanism for cheating all over the place (please quit with the chemical sniffer thing, the things are $2,000 min for a very very basic one from what I have researched)....

Later EddieO
I couldn't disagree more with this post. The chemicals used in the discussed tire sauces and engine cleaners are toxic, period. Banning them would be a positive for the longevity of the sport. Their is always going to be cheating in racing, banning these chemicals is neither going to stop or increase cheating.
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Old 03-18-2007, 12:35 PM   #474
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Of course there is cheating.....never said there was not. I can GUARANTEE you, that if you ban all traction sauces, cheating will increase.....as guys will attempt to gain more traction any way they can.....right now, there is NO need to cheat with traction sauce....the best way is legal.....and can be bought at any track for $10.


Please also show where I said it would stop cheating?

The simple fact with any rule....people will always look for a way around it....and by banning all traction sauces you open it up for a new rule from them to work around or just plain break, especially since it has to do with one of the BIGGEST parts of car setup.....TRACTION.

And again, I simply said Oil of Wintergreen is probably not the part causing the problem....since its used in consumer candles and as a medical treatment with shown positive effects.

You know, what water is toxic too by definition.....toxic doesn't mean not able to be used, just means need to be used correctly.


Later EddieO
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Old 03-18-2007, 12:49 PM   #475
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Eddie O, we can agree to disagree concerning the subject of cheatng and tire sauce.

The bottom for me, I have never heard of anyone be attracted to RC Racing because of the chemicals we currently use in racing, but I do know of at least one driver walking away from RC racing because of the chemicals we currently use in racing.

I can also tell you, that I do not allow my sons to go to the RC trackwith me, because of the risk to the exposure of these chemicals. I doubt I am the only parent who thinks this way regarding RC racing.
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Old 03-18-2007, 12:56 PM   #476
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you guys are nuts.traction compound might smell like wintergreen but so does wintergreen gum. you guys going to complain about that too?

tire sauce is nothing compared to most peoples daily jobs. check this out. im sure just about eeveryone has used a can of spray paint. now smelling tire sauce might give you a little headacke that is gone a coupple hours after you leave. now if you do not use a respirator and you spray paint with a paint can. you perminatly have paint stuck in your body from the air breathing it. and most of the time you dont even notice it. you paint cars for a living.. your body is toast. you work in a shop for a living. and your body is destroyed. tire sauce dosent chemically burn you like cleaners. or hair dye.

you guys are whining about nothing and trying to make it something.

idiots.
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Old 03-18-2007, 02:50 PM   #477
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Her is a site that explains the hazards of some of the chemicals we use. At the bottom is a Key that will explain the terms.

http://www.prodaware.com/articles/so...er-Journal.pdf
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:28 PM   #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wes
you guys are nuts.traction compound might smell like wintergreen but so does wintergreen gum. you guys going to complain about that too?

tire sauce is nothing compared to most peoples daily jobs. check this out. im sure just about eeveryone has used a can of spray paint. now smelling tire sauce might give you a little headacke that is gone a coupple hours after you leave. now if you do not use a respirator and you spray paint with a paint can. you perminatly have paint stuck in your body from the air breathing it. and most of the time you dont even notice it. you paint cars for a living.. your body is toast. you work in a shop for a living. and your body is destroyed. tire sauce dosent chemically burn you like cleaners. or hair dye.

you guys are whining about nothing and trying to make it something.

idiots.
How ignorent !!!!!!!!!!!!
I work in a place that has banned the use of ALL aerosol cans in the garage unless it's in the paint booth and a respirated is worn or used outdoors because of the known health risk. Does this make them idiots or the safety commitee that put this rule into affect idiots to?
I thinks the real idiot is you for your ignorence. It takes a real IDIOT to knock someone for expressing thier concern and trying to do something about a product that does had some adverse affects on some poeple.
Again Martin has every right to express his concern. As much as he loves RC he knows that being around paragon has some affects on him that are not good and he is simply asking our thoughts on what we think could or should be done. I am sure he is not the only person that has had to step back from RC racing where the use of traction compounds make them sick but at least he has the BALLS to try to do something about it so he can someday enjoy Rc racing again......

Last edited by Jmccormick; 03-18-2007 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 03-18-2007, 03:49 PM   #479
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Hear, hear.

I do agree with EddieO in that it is important to know how to handle the stuff used in RC and then off course do that. Problem is that to do that we still need to know what it is exactly that we are handling and off course take the appropriate measures.

From my many many years in RC I feel the precautions that Martin describes are much much more than most of us take. And would you believe it, for him even that was not enough. What if, to avoid effects that only occur after long term exposure, we find out we should all be wearing Hazmat (not sure I spelled this correctly) suits at RC races? Would we all do that? Guess not...
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Old 03-18-2007, 04:26 PM   #480
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I noy saying that agee or disagree with anyone . I just find it wrong to knock a person or persons for dsicussing and tryning to resolve an issue that affect the health of some people...

Now I have read the precautions right on the can of paragon and it does state to avoid prolonged exposure to vapors. Now at club race it's no biggie you only there for a few hours usualy. But at a bigger events where you there for a few days how can you not avoid it unless the place has a kick ass ventilation system. I myself do try to get outdoors for a few minutes it does help but I do get headaches and my eyes start to burn occasionaly.
Out of all products used in RC I think tire sauce seems to have the most adverse affects on some poeple and is the hardest to completely avoid...
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