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Old 03-14-2007, 01:01 PM   #331
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Default uninformed and ignorant comments that affect health

I guess the best solution according to some is to do nothing and keep damaging your health, or wait, since they are ok, there are no side affects.

A lot of these are the same arguments that were used with smoking:
1) costs too much to ventilate
2) where will smoker's go?
3) it's their right to smoke in your face
4) there is no danger in smoking

This breaks down into 2 camps:
1) those who get and understand something has to be done to both preserve health and attract new racers
2) those who don't get it, and will only change when they feel symptoms.

What makes this unbelievable to me is that racers get headaches, get nosebleeds, get rashes, etc, and still go race and don't want to do anything to preserve their health.

You get headaches for a reason, you get nosebleeds for a reason.

What would happen if some rules would change? Would racer's quit? I would be willing to bet racers wouldn't quit if tracks went to a no compound, all chemicals outside rule. Is the increased traction the only reason you race?

It's also amazing that those who have expertise in racing are given so much respect when it comes to health. What exactly is their knowledge about side affects? What research have they done?

Most people have to be dragged kicking and screaming to help themselves.

Let's look at the comments that you would spend $100 per race to fund a better ventilation system. Where does this number come from? How much electricity does an industrial heater or air conditioner draw for 6 hours of racing per cubic foot?(you could turn it on a couple of hours before hand, and turn it off an hour before racing concludes.) No one is talking about a clean room. Simple ventilation to get some air moving would be a 100% improvement.

In a compromise, the race rules could be as follows:
1) motor spray outside only
2) tire truing outside only
3) pit towels used to wipe compound must be stored in a zip lock bag when not being used
4) ventilation is mandatory (industrial fan on 1 end, open window on another)

I don't understand why this has to be repeated for people to get it, exposure and side effects are cumulative. Look at any warning labels on most chemicals, they all say prolonged exposure causes this and that. Most will have no effects for a certain time, then they will get them. The problem is that if you continue exposure, the effects get worse.

Of everyone who gets lung cancer, how many people smoked. It's not 100% or even 90%, so gee smoking is not bad for you.

I am not a rabid racer, and don't race indoor carpet. But I love this hobby and would like to do it more, but I can't believe the things I see people doing while they are racing. I would love to bring my kids to the track when they are older, but unless we are racing outdoors, there is no way in hell they will ever be at the track unless things change.

Even though paragon doesn't give me a headache, I hate how it gets into everything (the main reason I don't race foam carpet.)
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Old 03-14-2007, 01:01 PM   #332
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Hey Josh,...

Anything is worth a try I think.

Billjacobs...

I agree with you 100%.
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Old 03-14-2007, 01:03 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
Martin - It makes me wonder if anyone has tried the FXII or Traction Action indoors (Paragon products). Maybe the lack of MeS would be less offensive on the smell but not have some of the other chemicals that Jack has that causes guys hands to lock up and/or have the headaches.... I worked on some other additives a few years ago when our track was in the shopping mall... Maybe I should revisit them with some more research....
We have tried the Taction Action stuff at our track and it actually puts more bite down than Paragon as long as everyone is using it. And its completely odorless. It doesnt quite give you grip from the get go like paragon but comes in a lot faster than Jack does.

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Old 03-14-2007, 01:09 PM   #334
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Default one more thing

Why are all the comments only about how well this product works versus that? If everyone uses the same thing, it won't matter if you use a safer product that gives a little less traction.
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:01 PM   #335
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I have no idea why its so difficult to just stop using it. Accross the board stop sausing tires. The R/C chemicals are not in our face and hands as much as the tire sauses. Our hands,mouth and face get traction compound on them(yes our mouth it can splash) also our transmitters are covered in it espescially the steering wheel!!

ITs as simple as indiviual tracks making this happen..

What i dont understand is why is it so hard to say no more traction compound? If no one can use it then everyone is equal. Equally healthy and equal on traction... Use tirewarmers if thats what it takes... CART doesnt use em F1 does. Does it matter to eather sport? No because the entire race feild is on equal grip at the start of the race... So for the r/c racer i dont know why we insist on using traction compound....

"IF it dont hurt me what do i care? i want grip" is 90% of the attitude out there. But if the rules say 6 cell 4200mah everyone follows suit, if its 190mm wide chassis in sedan everyone complies..... IF the track owner/club owners/members say no more compound..... Then everyone would/should comply or go home and sniff that can of paragon. I mean sure the grip might be lower at the start of the race, but it will pickup.... Again use tire warmers if needed.

ITs racing and just as cars evolve so will grip without chemicals. Either we run cold first few laps are we warm with warmers... Heck wouldnt it be kool if tire manufacutres could make tires last longer??? And have grip from lap 1 till lap 200??
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:18 PM   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billjacobs
Why are all the comments only about how well this product works versus that? If everyone uses the same thing, it won't matter if you use a safer product that gives a little less traction.

10-4!!!!

Also lets not forget its the tires not the sause that is supposed to make the grip!
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Old 03-14-2007, 02:50 PM   #337
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I have seen too many friends and family members, as well as clients die from cancer, some were smokers, others worked in mines, one was a plumber
( FLUX )

A complete ban at my local track will probably not happen, but what I will be doing is limiting my exposure to these products.
ie: Wearing Gloves, moving the garbage can where people spray their motor spray. I will also start to race every two weeks....
I will also avoid the big events where there are numerous entries.
I may even go back to running connectors on my Batteries & Motors

I believe some of us have forgotten why we do this stuff in the first place.
To have fun, make new friends & add some competition to our lives.
I work in a very difficult position, and I look forward to racing on Sunday, not because I want to win, but because it is relaxing.

I don't recall any other hobby or interest I have being a potential health hazard. ie: Golfing & Boating

There are alot of things in this world that are hazardous to our health.
1 in 3 Canadians will be diagnosed with Cancer in their lifetime, There will be some of us in 20-30 years who are diagnosed with a serious illness, and it will be too late at that point.

I am supporting Martin on this one.....

Grant
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Old 03-14-2007, 03:06 PM   #338
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Some good posts here.

Martin, sorry to see you leaving, you are a bit of an icon in RC. Good luck for the future mate!

I dont see what the problem is with banning this stuff

Give it a couple of weeks and racers will be just as fast with out it. The same racers will win. Racers will just have to drive to the conditions like their full size counterparts.

We dont run the stuff in NZ so I just cant see what the problem is with getting rid of it or why you even have to have it. It just isnt necessary to use these compounds. Racing is just as much fun with out it. And slightly less expensive too.

Just my .02c
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Old 03-14-2007, 03:21 PM   #339
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loopedeloop - good to hear from you again! ...and I agree with you!

Grant, joel, and everyone supporting this.. - thanks.
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Old 03-14-2007, 03:28 PM   #340
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i burn myself constantly with my soldering iron, this is traumatizing.

sorry.... that was uncalled for ;-)

As I said earlier, sorry to see you leave for this reason.... can't belive its spurred up so many posts!

(note: this post has shared the table with products that contain nuts or milk.. please read accordingly).
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Old 03-14-2007, 03:30 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insuranceguy
I don't recall any other hobby or interest I have being a potential health hazard. ie: Golfing & Boating
Grant
Golfing : foot problems, elbow problems, sun exposure....
Boating: sun exposure, or... you could drown?
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Old 03-14-2007, 04:04 PM   #342
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For all those supportive of either banning the use of tire additives in racing, I'd send an e-mail to the executives at ROAR...typing on this thread will make no difference...when this thread first started I had sent an e-mail to ROAR asking them to look into this...I'm not sure whatever happened.

We have a newly appointed President...he and his staff should look into this and ask those members on the electric committee to investigate the situation and and provide a report for the membership.

IMO: ROAR should ban the use of all tire additives starting in 2008 at all ROAR sanctioned Level 3, 4 and 5 events.

This will provide companies like Jaco / Parma / GRP etc time to develop an alternative tire compound which meets the racers needs without the use of harmful tire additives. (imagine a spec foam tire)

It provides more than enough time for racers to make the adjustment

and send a message that ROAR is interested in the safety of its membership.

ROAR bi-laws require that ROAR sanctioned events be held within a safe racing environment.

Until something changes, I'm limiting my exposure with carpet racing...Can't wait for the weather to warm-up or Vegas in April.
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Old 03-14-2007, 04:29 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Lagace
I have no idea why its so difficult to just stop using it. Accross the board stop sausing tires.
...
What i dont understand is why is it so hard to say no more traction compound? If no one can use it then everyone is equal.
... So for the r/c racer i dont know why we insist on using traction compound....

... if the rules say 6 cell 4200mah everyone follows suit, if its 190mm wide chassis in sedan everyone complies..... IF the track owner/club owners/members say no more compound..... Then everyone would/should comply or go home and sniff that can of paragon. I mean sure the grip might be lower at the start of the race, but it will pickup.... Again use tire warmers if needed.
your sentiments make sense, but in the spirit of moving towards an actual solution, the thing to consider when outlawing compound, is how to stop people who might use it "under the table" or without anyone else knowing. things like car width, weight, batts etc those things are observable, measurable, and therefore easier to enforce. if a rule can't be tech'd, then it will be difficult to enforce at the club level.

is there a way to tech what compounds are on a tire?
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Old 03-14-2007, 04:41 PM   #344
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I tend to wonder why everyone fixates on the MeS in Paragon when I'm fairly sure Laquer thinner is one of the main ingredients. I used to notice that paragon would soften up the glue on tires when they still mounted them with contact cement.

What I'm saying is the chemicals you can't smell, in Paragon, JTG, Niftech etc, are probably what really hurt you. Monti pointed out that acetone is in Niftech, which some guys like because it is less smelly and evaporates quick. All that quick evaporation means is it is getting into the air faster.

If something like suntan lotion could be used, maybe that's best.
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Old 03-14-2007, 04:59 PM   #345
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I am the oddball who likes the smell of Paragon... BUT this last weeks nats was ridiculous to say the least. I have never felt bad from the fumes, but i definately felt that the air was less than healthy. Didnt realise it until i went outside for lunch.

Im all for no tire dope, but it has to be across the board. Not just certain level events, and at certain tracks.

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