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Old 03-13-2007, 09:17 AM   #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprsme
Carl- BTW aren't you a nitro guy....LOL When did you guys start using Paragon? LOL

I bet if you told you doctor about those nitro fumes you would be advised to give up nitro racing also, what ya think?

Nitro YES!!! Because for the most part at least its outdoors...I get plenty of fresh air between helping others, qualifiers and mains. I've never gone home sick after a nitro race, yet I get sick everytime I race at an indoor carpet event.

Your points are all valid...we are need to be more careful when working with all types of chemicals...but why compound the problem when you can eliminate it. I bet if ROAR banned all tire additives within a 6-month or 1-year period, Jaco, Parma, GRP etc...would find a foam tire compound that works wthout the use of an additive.

A poorly ventilated environment creates a health risk to all...the use of tire additives makes a poorly ventilated environment that much worse.
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:23 AM   #287
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True story:

A buddy at the track had Paragon on his fingers and had an itch (nuts) welp lets just say he melted the skin off his sack and was badly burned. No lie, sorry for being blunt!

YES this stuff will harm you!!
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:28 AM   #288
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If you really want to get something done about this, then write your senator, governor, congressman and/or local officials about this issue. If anything it'll put pressure on the manufacturers to develop traction compounds that are less harmful to us and our environment. With the big "green living" push these days I wouldn't be surprised if your official acted on this issue pretty quickly.

Last edited by Apex; 03-13-2007 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:33 AM   #289
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On Thursday at the Nationals I had a pain at the back of my eyes. Not like a burning, but more like a headache. It was really weird. This is only the 2nd big race I have been to that allowed Paragon. I had a headache all day Thursday. Friday-Sunday Mr. Cyrul got a fan for us to keep the air moving and it was much better, and I only had a mile headache the last 3 days. I washed all of my clothes right away when I got home. I think when the younger races get a little older and have kids, those kids might have 3 eyes
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:36 AM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Crisp
imprsme

I am sorry this post is not as restrained as my normal posts, but I am extremely pissed that I need to give up this hobby and for someone to tell me to "get real" is just ridiculous.

Thanks to those that do understand what it means to me to give this up.
I'd not give up on the hobby...my buddy is trying to get me back into electric off-road during the winter season...I like the looks of Tamiya's new 4wd...

Also, we started tested brushless / Lipoly last year in 1/8th scale on-road cars...problem is we only get 7-8 minutes on a full run. This will improve over time.
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:38 AM   #291
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maybe the problem is we are all getting a lot older and the effects we were able to tolerate earlier are kicking in.
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:41 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabee
True story:

A buddy at the track had Paragon on his fingers and had an itch (nuts) welp lets just say he melted the skin off his sack and was badly burned. No lie, sorry for being blunt!

YES this stuff will harm you!!
I can agree with this one. While at Birds, I managed to spill an entire can of Paragon all over myself (lap & legs). Almost instantly my pants and skin bonded together and started to burn. Luckily I was able to get them off quickly and jump in the shower. Our room definatley had the most traction there
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:43 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC Scoring Pro
On Thursday at the Nationals I had a pain at the back of my eyes. Not like a burning, but more like a headache. It was really weird. This is only the 2nd big race I have been to that allowed Paragon. I had a headache all day Thursday. Friday-Sunday Mr. Cyrul got a fan for us to keep the air moving and it was much better, and I only had a mile headache the last 3 days. I washed all of my clothes right away when I got home. I think when the younger races get a little older and have kids, those kids might have 3 eyes

My problem with Paragon....Headache's R US!!
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:09 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprsme
I just found it funny that the thread had all but gone away and then it pops back up with a whole thing about having to leave the hobby because of "Traction compound" and the unfounded health issuse it causes.....

Think about this, How many of just the top 20-25 guys in the hobby have been doing this for over 10 yrs? Would you give it half or maybe 3/4th of them, how many have a SERIOUS health issuse in which a Doctor has told them it came from thier contact from ingredients in r/c related products! If this stuff was so bad wouldn't we have atleast 4-5 guys that have had YEARS AND YEARS of contact with the stuff and a serious health issuse on here fighting to ban it....That was all I was trying to say.

HEY!! Turn around words are coming out of your Butt!!

Why not read BEFORE you rant... and to take that one step further why not think BEFORE you speak.

1. This thread was started as a call to LOOK INTO the possible harmful effects to everyone that these compounds might pose to people. Martin said from the get go, that HE has a personal health problem with them.. but that MAYBE all the complaints go further than Headaches for everyone else.

2. Ignorance is bliss and if you want to shout people down because they have concerns then I guess thats your right. Like the cigarette companies, asbestos companies... need I go on? Many people smoke for 50 years and are not dead YET.. does that make smoking ok?

Take a chill pill, give the man his due, and maybe walk away from this thread with a little more awareness than when you barged into it.

We all make choices for ourselves and others. Would the hobby or for that matter the world not be a better place if the choices that did not hurt yourself but could help others be made more times than not? (fly U.N. flag here)
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Old 03-13-2007, 10:23 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by A. Rhodes
Luckily I was able to get them off quickly and jump in the shower.:
"Oh, I'm sorry Seaball....it appears I've spilled some Paragon on your pants....."

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Old 03-13-2007, 10:52 AM   #296
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Paragon acts like catnip to toy car racers.


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Old 03-13-2007, 11:20 AM   #297
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Originally Posted by imprsme
So are you gonna give up eating fast food, going outside, being in a room with ppl who smoke, using any household cleaning products and all of the millions of other day to day things that "they" say will harm your health?
If your argument is based on these four examples, you have chosen some really bad examples....

Junk Food - lawsuits galore due to the levels of MSG and other "ingredients" shown to be carcinogenic. The junk food of today is not the same as yesteryear due to the change forced upon fast-food retailers by those consumers that stood-up and voiced: "Hey I'm getting sick from this stuff." There is a reason that big companies like McDonalds are including healthier options - it's not cause they care about the consumer.... it's because they have been forced to.

Going Outside - pollution caused by idling cars are now being minimized with anti-idle laws punishable with a fine. Large companies that exceed pollution allowances too are fined quite heavily as well.... again change forced due to pushback from a united group of people.

Forced to be in a room with people that smoke - anti-smoking laws now passed that ban the smoking of cigarettes in public places. They come with hefty fines.... Numerous studies supporting the fact that cigarette smoke causes cancer. WHY - because a pushback from the consumer.

Household cleaning products - the chemicals in today's products have changed. Consumers have started the movement pushing that household cleaners are to come from more natural sources. WHY - push back from the consumer that they are tired of getting ill keeping their homes clean, and they are tired of killing the environment. The popularity of citrus-based cleaners supports this.

Martin's push to identify a problem with traction compounds is exactly the thing that manufacturers and consumers need to see to realize that a) we have an option ... to run without traction compound b) there is a serious problem here. Yes - Martin is the most outspoken about this issue - however, re-read the thread and see the numerous others that have also mentioned their concerns regarding today’s traction compounds. Not only are your comments unsupportive of your position – they support Martin Crisp’s position that something has to change before others get seriously ill.
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Old 03-13-2007, 11:32 AM   #298
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I have been involved in RC for close to 20 years (racing for a long time but not competitively or religiously) and have realized the following:

1) the compounds in the motor spray, solder, traction compound, greases, etc are all bad for you, with prolonged exposure. I think the prolonged exposure part is the key. By the way, breathing in a highly concentrated chemical for 8 hours straight for several days, is much worse than racing once a week for several months- this has to do with overexposure and concentration)
2) every racer tries to get an advantage and will do whatever it takes to get that advantage or at least do the same everyone else is doing
3) laws that apply to any office or workplace in terms of ventilation, cleanup, disposal, etc, don't seem to apply to rc
4) the problems seem to show up in more dedicated racers (see the prolonged exposure in 1 above)

I would rank the chemicals we use in order of danger as follows:
1) traction compound (you use much more of it, get it all over your hands, breath in the fumes hour after hour)
2) motor spray (you use less, although you get it all over your hands, and breath in the fumes)
3) solder (mostly from breathing the flux, lead solder doesn't vaporize at 950 degrees)
4) paint (almost gone with water based paint, but you can still breathe in the paint by spraying it)
5) greases, etc

In terms of safety, the number 1 thing is ventilation. If a track can't afford a ventilator (or a fan with open doors,) the racers should pool together and buy one.

The next thing is common sense. Why would a racer eat food with hands covered in chemicals? Why would a racer not wash their hands every once in a while to get the chemicals off? Why would a racer not go outside every hour to breathe in fresh air?

And for goodness sakes, WHY WOULD A RACER BRING THEIR CHILD TO THE TRACK IF THEY ARE GETTING HEADACHES FROM THE FUMES, or IF THEY KNOW THE CHEMICALS ARE DANGEROUS?

In my opinion, the best way to solve the problem is:
1) install fans and open doors
2) go with something like niftech. It is not as good as paragon, but, you don't have to wipe it off, it doesn't smell as bad, and the smell doesn't linger.
3) go with brushless motors which require very little maintenance and remove the need for motor spray (and if motor spray is used, only allow it to be sprayed outside)
4) use connectors to get rid of soldering irons
5) look into lipo packs (see 4)

and 6))) if you are getting nosebleeds, headaches, etc, don't race for a while. Your body needs time to recover.
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Old 03-13-2007, 01:43 PM   #299
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In New Zealand the national sanctioning body banned ALL additives for tires early on.
I don't believe we have suffered because of it at all. The good drivers still come to the top.
All that happens is that we probably just have a little less traction all through the meeting. But the cars still hook up really good after thae track has been run on for a while.

I say just ban all traction compounds for tires completely and then you won't have to worry about what to use when, will it hurt me etc.
It also takes another parameter out of the setup of the car and brings the cost of racing down a little.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:10 PM   #300
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fatbear....

good on ya!
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