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Old 04-06-2006, 08:50 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason
www.tracktac.com ... and they warn you that they dont use cancer causing compounds but that you still need to be careful.
Yea the only thing that stinks is it isn't available in California...LOL
I would love to try their sst formula...Might help in those really nicely preped tracks...and the Orage and grape for those not so well preped tracks for asphalt racing..
Looks promissing...
But lets just say if they aren't allowed to sell in California that there is something in it that is harmfull...LOL
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Old 04-06-2006, 08:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TT120
Nope, I like it too. I can't believe EVERYONE doesn't like it.
You can always get a daily wintergreen fix from your local Old Folks Home................
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Old 04-06-2006, 08:57 AM   #18
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geeez....you guys are complaining about Paragon? LMAO......

Have you ever used NIFTECH? I used it a couple of times at my local carpet track and it damn near knocked me out. Paragon is Cool Aid compared to that crap........
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Old 04-06-2006, 09:08 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Slotmachine
You can always get a daily wintergreen fix from your local Old Folks Home................
Your not right,,,,,,,
Man those old folks would freak out if they came out there and started sniffin them....LOL
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Old 04-06-2006, 09:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
geeez....you guys are complaining about Paragon? LMAO......

Have you ever used NIFTECH? I used it a couple of times at my local carpet track and it damn near knocked me out. Paragon is Cool Aid compared to that crap........
Is that why they call you Advil?
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Old 04-06-2006, 09:17 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil
geeez....you guys are complaining about Paragon? LMAO......

Have you ever used NIFTECH? I used it a couple of times at my local carpet track and it damn near knocked me out. Paragon is Cool Aid compared to that crap........
Our track uses Niftech and that is very mild compared to Paragon. Also Niftech will clean a track. We see clean tire marks when the tires are wet.

I am sure we can get MSDS sheets from these companies. Isn't this an OSHA reg if you work at a place that handles the stuff they have to have one on hand?
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Old 04-06-2006, 09:26 AM   #22
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There is no OSHA regulation for "consumer quantities". There is a "wordy" exemption for household cleaners, office products WD40 and such used in quantities that a consumer would purchase and uses as a consumer would use them, so unless you buy a five gallon bucket or 55 gallon drum of ttraction fluid, I doubt you will get a MSDS.
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Old 04-06-2006, 09:30 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Billanti
I think i may be the only person who likes the stink of paragon.
Many of us don't mind the smell of Paragon. It is actually Jack the Gripper I hate.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:10 AM   #24
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I beleive they have banned the use of wintergreen based tyre additives in the UK, due to the health risk... in the end, is it worth your health, as once the damage is done, it isn't reversible... I remember having to sit in my car for an hour whilst my head cleared after a 12th national in the mid 90's, the stuff was so smelly.

Seriously guys, as much as you think it is daft, if you were working with it, then your boss would be responsible for giving you breathing aparatus to work with it, but you would happily sit in a warm building with a hundred guys liberaly dousing tyres with it..
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:36 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason
let's add to the list.

Lubricants and Greases
Loctite
Paint
Solder/flux
CA

its all about volume.

If you want to get serious, race rubber - no compounds. Of course this means tire cost will go up as we will want balanced tires without any release agent left on them and the whole nine yards.
You are right...it is about volume, and It is my opinion we get exposed to traction compound much much more than the other chemicals you list.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:36 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
Yea the only thing that stinks is it isn't available in California...LOL
I would love to try their sst formula...Might help in those really nicely preped tracks...and the Orage and grape for those not so well preped tracks for asphalt racing..
Looks promissing...
But lets just say if they aren't allowed to sell in California that there is something in it that is harmfull...LOL
-Shookie <><

As I said above - the stuff works great. I used to race on a tire compound called YDS, which was the hardest compound they made as of last year - now the tire is out of production. But the tire went from what I would described as a set of rocks - to fairly soft. When i would pick the kart up off the rig I used to transport it, you could feel it was stuck to the wood!

The only downside I could see for RC use, is the fact that it take a bit longer to work. The prep phase takes about 2-5 days. The longer, the better. But once prepped, you dont have to prep before every run. (wrapping the tires in saran wrap, also helped IMHO - but thye say it isn't necessary) It does leave a bit of a slim/coating that would need to be wipped off though, otherwise I can't imagine carpet would look to pretty after a few runs! Though I have to admit, I think this stuff would work better on asphalt then carpet... but who knows.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:47 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPotter
Martin,

You are a well respected racer, and your going to feel the rath of the PARAGON MAFIA.....

I too suffer from the effects of Paragon, but only have the deal with it once or twice a year. I think we need to be more aware of all the Chemical we are exposed to in this hobby. Tire additives, Motor Spray, Paints, lubes....
Hey Tim,

Thanks for you comments about being respected, I really appreciate that. Yeah I figured I would get slammed for this by the paragon huggers and the grip lovers, but someone needs to say somthing and I am not one to sit on the sidelines while everyone's health suffers. Maybe it is because I am in my 40s as to why I care so much about this topic,... maybe it is becuase this stuff has dramatically affected my personal health in a very negative way, but the bottom line is this stuff in the volumes we use it, is causing serious health problems.

If I was a manufacture of this stuff, I don't know how I could live with myself knowing the health problems it was causing. An if as a manufacture I did not care about that then I would at least care about the risk of being sued. Moreover, the manufacture that produces a product that is far less harmful and still provides decent grip could create a tremendous revenue stream for their company.

Thanks for your comments.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:50 AM   #28
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I seriously think I am going to try vegatable oil.

I think it actually might work.

Probably still have to clean the tires off with Buggy grip or motor spray.
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Old 04-06-2006, 10:57 AM   #29
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[QUOTE=koabich]Well, it would be nice if the stuff could be made from less dangerous stuff, but the side effects of methyl salicylate (synthetic oil of wintergreen) as stated in the first post do not sound any more dangerous or different than any normal household product.
......

...... Anything in great quantities, EVEN WATER, can be dangerous and deadly.....

Personally, just like smoking or drinking, it should be left up to the individual racer, track owner or race promotor to determine what traction compound is used. I do not believe that it should be banned or that Paragon and others should be forced to stop making it or change it's chemistry. In the end, it's not any worse than anything else we are exposed to on a daily basis....
QUOTE]

Hey,

I can certainly appreciate what you are trying to say here, that there are a lot of dangerous chemicals we are exposed to, (any you are right)...so why pick on this one. Well as you also point out it is about the volume or "great quantities", which is why I think this is somthing that needs to be addressed. I think for most people they get far more exposure to traction compound chemicals in one weekend of racing than they do from any other product over a much longer period of time...maybe months or even a year. That metrics could be debated, but the point I am making is that we get a LOT of exposure to this stuff relative to just about any other chemical product I can think of.

I agree the choice is up to the individual racer or event promoter, but today the choices out there are just too toxic. We need other options that are not as dangerous to our health so that we have a realtively "safe" choice.
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Old 04-06-2006, 11:05 AM   #30
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To be honest......

I don't think that any health problems are actually related to the "oil of wintergreen" but instead to the "carrier/solvent" used to get the oil of winter green into the tire. I think this holds true for all of the compounds available. These are the chemicals that are much more likely to cause health problems. I mean..... it is approved for use in things like Ben Gay so I don't think it going to kill anyone.
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