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Old 03-12-2007, 08:45 PM   #256
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Much like many others here in Canada - Martin was my first contact with a "Pro" RC car driver. Through the years I have had the privilege of racing at the same club that he races at and to see a great wheel like Martin leave the hobby because of something that is somewhat avoidable is truly a shame.
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Old 03-12-2007, 09:37 PM   #257
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That sucks Martin!! You know this all falls on ROAR and other sanctioning bodies. If its not allowed then its not around!!! I dont understand why we even have to use traction additive? you dont see real race cars soakin their tires with juice before they go out? Why cant any of the tire companies come out with tires that just hook up!!? Seems as though this is somethig REAL and it should be HIGHLY considered at the next ROAR meeting, etc.. You are not the only one who gets sick off of the dope, I have many friends that dont like big races because they are caught in a cloud of paragon.. Ive even noticed that towards the end of an event or a race day where additives have been used all day then I get real tired and my body feels like sh_t!! Come on guys lets get this stuff right!!

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Old 03-12-2007, 09:52 PM   #258
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So are you gonna give up eating fast food, going outside, being in a room with ppl who smoke, using any household cleaning products and all of the millions of other day to day things that "they" say will harm your health?

I understand that its your choice to stop using the product or even take it as far as giving up the hobby all together. But come on lets be real.....


Paragon has been around ALONG time, I have yet to see one person who has ever posted or written a letter to any of the mags. about traction compund causing them grave health issuses. I maybe wrong but I just can recall one...
Yes I have had the dreaded "headache" at the big races, but I really couldn't tell you that it 100% came from the smell of the compound or the lack of sleep for the week.


Plus I can't see how, unless you race a "big" race every weekend, that the 5-6 hours you are at a Club track one day a week with 20-30 ppl (if your club even gets that many) how this will have such a Huge effect on your health vs all of the other things in everyday life that are bad for your health.

But hey to each his own and I hate to see anyone leave this hobby, but either way good luck in what ever you choose next!
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:08 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprsme
I have yet to see one person who has ever posted or written a letter to any of the mags. about traction compund causing them grave health issuses.

No? what the heck is this thread about then? looks like it started over a year ago!! and writing to mags usually gets you nowhere fast!!

And when I go eat some fast food, I dont feel like crap and get tired, (well sometimes maybe) I totally know the buzz I get off of paragon, dont tell me it doesnt effect you!!

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Old 03-12-2007, 10:17 PM   #260
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Sorry to see you go Martin, but this is jsut another example of how the racers are killing it for themselves... We have so many problems holdings us back, that can be fixed, but people cannot or will not do anything about it. We just keep on going down the same path.

Some race organizers would love to ban harmful compounds... but they are afraid that the TOP teams will not participate if they do... no top teams... no sponsors... no money... If you yank Paragon... the Paragon Mafia gets thier panties in a bunch... because 99% of them have no problem with the stuff...

You try to rein in power.... as the cars we have today have too much.... The racers have a shitfit.... but the cars are just too miuch for new people today... and it is cost prohibitive to get new people into the hobby... then they bitch that our counts are going down....

You try to put a ladder system in place to get stock back to what it is intended to be... A competeve class for the average joe racer..... Stock lifers bitch that they should be able to race what they want....One factory loads the stock class with ringers... and other follow suit... All of this to make the national levels of racing more appealing to new racers....

We are our own worst enemy... left unchecked... we will destroy this great hobby...


Martin, you have to take care of yourself.... as the leaders in this industry do not care about the health of the racers.... well, the leaders are afraid to make the tough calls to make racing safer for everyone....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Crisp
I know this is a sensitive issue given the large number of responses to this thread I started last year. But I just wanted to let everyone know that I have decided to quite the RC hobby because of the tire traction compounds we use.

In the end my health is more important than this hobby even though I am extremely depressed that I need to give it up when alternatives could be explored. I don't see any action by the manufactures or the governing bodies to do anything about this, and I have decided not to wait any longer.

I was at the ROAR nats this past weekend at Josh's track (which looked great by the way) and got sick from the paragon after just the first half day of practice. So I left and went home the next day. I have talked to a few people that attended that event who also got sick. One individual said he would never go to a big indoor race again because of the paragon.

I will miss you all.
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:38 PM   #261
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Good luck Martin. I've never had the pleasure of meeting you, but after reading your book I became an instant fan. I hope you find something you love as much as R/C that doesn't cause you physical suffering. Don't rule out off-road entirely, it seems like there's more people enjoying that part of R/C than on-road, and many of them seem to do it without giving much thought to sedans.

I will continue to hope that this issue is taken more seriously, and isn't run off by the crowd of people that think just because something doesn't affect them, doesn't mean it's not worthy of consideration. That mentality is fading away from society in general, and will trickle down to R/C eventually.
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:40 PM   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprsme
So are you gonna give up eating fast food, going outside, being in a room with ppl who smoke, using any household cleaning products and all of the millions of other day to day things that "they" say will harm your health?
I believe he's doing this because it's causing him a great deal of personal suffering. I imagine he didn't leave the ROAR nats after traveling there from Canada because he just had a headache.
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:40 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggity



No? what the heck is this thread about then? looks like it started over a year ago!! and writing to mags usually gets you nowhere fast!!

And when I go eat some fast food, I dont feel like crap and get tired, (well sometimes maybe) I totally know the buzz I get off of paragon, dont tell me it doesnt effect you!!

Digs

Yeah it was posted over a year ago, got a few pages in about a week ...then was gone until today!!! So who in this post passed away or is on thier death bed or has been told that they have cancer or any other life threatning medical condition from traction compound???

You may not feel like crap from fast food, but I bet all the presevative and the grease they put in it is not good for us either...

So lets put it this way.

you gonna stop using:
Motor spray
body cleaners
paint in spray cans
WD40

I bet if you look at all of these products youcan and will find one or more "HARMFUL" ingredients, Then I bet if you go look them up in an MSDS book you would not be happy!

You use Easy off oven cleaner or Tilex or Windex or Weed Killers the list goes on around your house OH BOY they are FAR more harmful that traction compound I am sure......
Also remember boys and girls it doesn't have to smell to hurt you either! LOL
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:47 PM   #264
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Quote:
So are you gonna give up eating fast food, going outside, being in a room with ppl who smoke, using any household cleaning products and all of the millions of other day to day things that "they" say will harm your health?

I understand that its your choice to stop using the product or even take it as far as giving up the hobby all together. But come on lets be real.....


Paragon has been around ALONG time, I have yet to see one person who has ever posted or written a letter to any of the mags. about traction compund causing them grave health issuses. I maybe wrong but I just can recall one...
Yes I have had the dreaded "headache" at the big races, but I really couldn't tell you that it 100% came from the smell of the compound or the lack of sleep for the week.
this is not about a little headache!
Martin has suffered a great deal as anyone who knows him well enough knows....I don't think coughing up blood or being wheezy is a "little headache" I saw him Thursday morning after less than 24 hours around the compound last week and he was all ready suffering.....last year he had to take 4-5 weeks off after Cleveland, he also wears latex gloves because of his skin sensitivity, his skin dried out so bad that is hands were cracking....
so it is not a little headache!
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:50 PM   #265
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Sorry to see you leave Martin, you have been an ambasador for the RC industry.
Some people react differently to chemicals, your health is the more important issue.
Thanks for the help you have given me and me son, Fred and Tom.

Now finally, you will have time to write version 2 of the XXXmain Chassis Setup Guide.
So get to work!

You can still make the Reedy, wont be out of practice that much.

Fred Forg
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Old 03-12-2007, 10:58 PM   #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
I believe he's doing this because it's causing him a great deal of personal suffering. I imagine he didn't leave the ROAR nats after traveling there from Canada because he just had a headache.
I can understand that. I could imagine that anyone with any serious health issuse may not "enjoy" being around it...but like I said to each his own.


I just found it funny that the thread had all but gone away and then it pops back up with a whole thing about having to leave the hobby because of "Traction compound" and the unfounded health issuse it causes.....


Think about this, How many of just the top 20-25 guys in the hobby have been doing this for over 10 yrs? Would you give it half or maybe 3/4th of them, how many have a SERIOUS health issuse in which a Doctor has told them it came from thier contact from ingredients in r/c related products! If this stuff was so bad wouldn't we have atleast 4-5 guys that have had YEARS AND YEARS of contact with the stuff and a serious health issuse on here fighting to ban it....That was all I was trying to say.
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:04 PM   #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcats
this is not about a little headache!
Martin has suffered a great deal as anyone who knows him well enough knows....I don't think coughing up blood or being wheezy is a "little headache" I saw him Thursday morning after less than 24 hours around the compound last week and he was all ready suffering.....last year he had to take 4-5 weeks off after Cleveland, he also wears latex gloves because of his skin sensitivity, his skin dried out so bad that is hands were cracking....
so it is not a little headache!
Well with being said, it sound like HE is allegic to something in the compoud...I said the headache thing because that is always what everyone says at the big races. "man this Paragone smell is giving me a headache" And Martin didn't post as to why he left. I assumed (yea I know) that it was just the smell......

IF anything in this hobby or well for that matter anywhere caused me to cough up blood and my hand s to crack on contact I would also avoid it..
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:27 PM   #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprsme
Think about this, How many of just the top 20-25 guys in the hobby have been doing this for over 10 yrs? Would you give it half or maybe 3/4th of them, how many have a SERIOUS health issuse in which a Doctor has told them it came from thier contact from ingredients in r/c related products! If this stuff was so bad wouldn't we have atleast 4-5 guys that have had YEARS AND YEARS of contact with the stuff and a serious health issuse on here fighting to ban it....That was all I was trying to say.
Well at IIC I had a conversation with a driver that is in that short list of A-main drivers that race a lot. I will not mention his name as I will not speak on his behalf.

He told me that since he started racing carpet and with traction compound he has had all sorts of health problems. I must say that is one of those guys speaking about it. Why not speak out about it? Well most of the sponsored drivers this is how they make a living. Hard to cut your own strings.

Now how about this:

I personally own a hobby shop and I am willing to find out about testing costs and if I can afford it I will send in products to be tested. I had the same conversation with a local about how the no smell products are worse for you then the ones that smell. I would like to know for sure myself.
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Old 03-12-2007, 11:32 PM   #269
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It is really unfortunate that anyone has to quit doing something they love because they are physically unable to keep doing it.

There was a guy at a local indoor offroad track that raced electric and he was also hyper-sensitive to many chemicals in a similar way to what Martin may have experienced. In his case, our track also ran nitro events, and after those races he could not enter the building for a minimum of three days or he would get those types of symptoms. However, he also had similar experiences with certains perfumes. That makes it a little harder to know exactly what he had problems with but it is not just one thing used in a product directly causing the problem.

For manufacturers to stop making certain dangerous products it takes lawsuits and $$$ to persuade them. For anyone who has seen Fight Club, if the total cost of all lawsuits is less than a recall, the product goes on as normal.

One more thing- When it comes to substitutes, I do know one guy who uses Gojo on his tires. Seems to work pretty well too.
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Old 03-13-2007, 05:41 AM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imprsme

Paragon has been around ALONG time, I have yet to see one person who has ever posted or written a letter to any of the mags. about traction compund causing them grave health issuses. I maybe wrong but I just can recall one...
Yes I have had the dreaded "headache" at the big races, but I really couldn't tell you that it 100% came from the smell of the compound or the lack of sleep for the week.

Man just because its been around along time does not mean its ok.. Man shake your head!

Asbestos used to be around for long time too!! Need a reminder why its been banned?



We had a member that was having health conserns from paragon about 10 years ago. Our club actually went compoundless for a few seasons then moved to trinity zip free(traction free) and now Jack the gripper. Yayayaya its not perfect but its an solution that cuts the fumes down drastically.
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