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Old 04-15-2006, 11:16 PM   #241
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Just for information=> Canada has an Ingredient Disclosure list.
If a chemical is known to be hazardous, than it must be disclosed on the label or at least the MSDS. The link is below for the list. Please take some time to view it.

The data for Methyl salicylate ( oil of wintergreen ) is copied from the list. Note 0.1% w/w is required by Canadian law to be listed.

http://www.worksafesask.ca/external/...a/caridle0.htm

Item Column I...Column II...Chemical Identity......CAS* Registry Number.....
......1075..........(1474) ....Methyl salicylate............119-36-8

Ingredient Concentration
(%-weight/weight)
............0.1

Hexane is also listed.

Hope this helps

Randy
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Old 04-16-2006, 08:57 AM   #242
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Randy and g_bruin,

After doing some intitial reading on the site that Randy mentioned, I get the impression that it is a legal requirement to disclose the health and safety risk to employess, but I did not find any reference to legal requirements about disclosure to consumers. Do I understand this correctly?

However, I did read on the following Canadian site, that there are similar requlations for products sold to consumers...I have included some quotes from this site below, but I encorurage you to read the entire page. Are any of you aware of such requirements in the US?

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/...luation_e.html

Here are some quotes from this site....


"These Regulations Apply to Consumer Chemical Products:
If a consumer can buy a chemical product in Canada through the retail distribution network, then that product must meet the requirements of the Consumer Chemicals and Containers Regulations, 2001, issued under the Hazardous Products Act."


"Person Responsible
(CCCR-2001, s. 4, 5)

A manufacturer or importer of a consumer product has the obligation to determine whether that product falls within any of the hazard categories specified by Parts 1 to 5 of the CCCR-2001. The onus is on the manufacturer, including a packager and a labeller, or the importer, including a distributor, of the product, not the retailer.

Record of Results: (CCCR-2001, s. 5)
The person responsible must produce the record of the steps taken to classify their product. There is a time limit of 15 days to provide the requested information to an inspector."

"Is There a "Trade-Secret" Exemption for Ingredient Disclosure?
For toxic and corrosive products, the hazardous ingredients present at 1% or more must be listed in the first aid statement. The hazardous ingredients must be listed in descending order of proportion. That is, the first listed ingredient is present in the highest amount in the product."

"There is no "trade secret" exemption from hazardous ingredient disclosure for consumer chemical products for the following reasons:
the exact percentage of ingredients present is not required;
only hazardous ingredients are listed, not all ingredients;
there is a concentration cut-off of 1% for the listing of hazardous ingredients fragrances and other trace additives are not included. "
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Old 04-16-2006, 02:17 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Crisp
Randy and g_bruin,

After doing some intitial reading on the site that Randy mentioned, I get the impression that it is a legal requirement to disclose the health and safety risk to employess, but I did not find any reference to legal requirements about disclosure to consumers. Do I understand this correctly?

However, I did read on the following Canadian site, that there are similar requlations for products sold to consumers...I have included some quotes from this site below, but I encorurage you to read the entire page. Are any of you aware of such requirements in the US?

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/cps-spc/pubs/...luation_e.html

Here are some quotes from this site....


"These Regulations Apply to Consumer Chemical Products:
If a consumer can buy a chemical product in Canada through the retail distribution network, then that product must meet the requirements of the Consumer Chemicals and Containers Regulations, 2001, issued under the Hazardous Products Act."


"Person Responsible
(CCCR-2001, s. 4, 5)

A manufacturer or importer of a consumer product has the obligation to determine whether that product falls within any of the hazard categories specified by Parts 1 to 5 of the CCCR-2001. The onus is on the manufacturer, including a packager and a labeller, or the importer, including a distributor, of the product, not the retailer.

Record of Results: (CCCR-2001, s. 5)
The person responsible must produce the record of the steps taken to classify their product. There is a time limit of 15 days to provide the requested information to an inspector."

"Is There a "Trade-Secret" Exemption for Ingredient Disclosure?
For toxic and corrosive products, the hazardous ingredients present at 1% or more must be listed in the first aid statement. The hazardous ingredients must be listed in descending order of proportion. That is, the first listed ingredient is present in the highest amount in the product."

"There is no "trade secret" exemption from hazardous ingredient disclosure for consumer chemical products for the following reasons:
the exact percentage of ingredients present is not required;
only hazardous ingredients are listed, not all ingredients;
there is a concentration cut-off of 1% for the listing of hazardous ingredients fragrances and other trace additives are not included. "

Martin,

I don't know about Canada but in the USA if it is a paid event with employees and consumers then the requirements would be the more rigorous or stringent requirements.

In the USA it would be OSHA and CPSC. OSHA is for Occupational Safety and Health Administration & CPSC is for Consumer Product Safety Commission.

I admit that I didn't read all of CCCR-2001, but isn't the IDL use to define a hazardous ingredient for both employees and consumers along with WHMIS (Workplace Hazardous Materials Information Systems).

Hope this is of help

Randy
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Old 04-16-2006, 02:41 PM   #244
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I think the bottom line is this. If it is a hazardous ingredient as defined by the respective government, it has to be disclosed. If the ingredient isn't hazardous, disclosure is optional.

Finally, there is a minimum or de minimis amount for even hazardous chemicals. At that point even hazardous chemicals don't need to be disclosed. Currently, I think it is the state of Massachusetts that has the most stringent requirements.

Hope this helps

Randy
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Old 04-16-2006, 05:34 PM   #245
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OSHA governs hazardous chemicals use in the workplace. The Hazard Communication Standard mimics the Canadian requirement that was posted.

With regards to the manufacturing of products, that would fall under the EPA Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA). Every chemical produced or imported into the US must be registered with the EPA and this includes providing hazards information.
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Old 03-12-2007, 06:17 PM   #246
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Default Well - I am out...

I know this is a sensitive issue given the large number of responses to this thread I started last year. But I just wanted to let everyone know that I have decided to quite the RC hobby because of the tire traction compounds we use.

In the end my health is more important than this hobby even though I am extremely depressed that I need to give it up when alternatives could be explored. I don't see any action by the manufactures or the governing bodies to do anything about this, and I have decided not to wait any longer.

I was at the ROAR nats this past weekend at Josh's track (which looked great by the way) and got sick from the paragon after just the first half day of practice. So I left and went home the next day. I have talked to a few people that attended that event who also got sick. One individual said he would never go to a big indoor race again because of the paragon.

I will miss you all.
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Last edited by Martin Crisp; 03-12-2007 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 03-12-2007, 06:35 PM   #247
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Martin - That really sucks you're going to quit. Maybe you can just run outdoor electric or gas (that's if you aren't allergic to nitromethane)? I know how you feel. I get headaches from smelling Paragon all day, but luckily the track where I race has pretty high (40 to 50 foot) ceilings so it ventilates pretty well. Prolonged use of Paragon does concern me cause I've never seen or heard of any long term results of exposure to Paragon. For all we know it could be eating away at us internally. Well, good luck to you in the future. You could always race electric offroad.

I remember reading somewhere on Internet that odorless traction compounds are even more dangerous than the smelly wintergreen\citrus traction compounds. Anyone know?
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Old 03-12-2007, 06:47 PM   #248
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Sad to hear it.....

Glad that we in the UK use pretty user friendly additives....
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Old 03-12-2007, 07:04 PM   #249
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Hello Martin.

Sorry to hear you've decided to give up this enjoyable hobby. Unfortunately, I'm not is a position within ROAR to have any influence to make a difference. Your thread was important and I'm sure it has made a number of guys thin about the dangers of indoor racing with tire additives.

Good luck to you...there still is electric rubber tire outdoor racing to look forward to.

Regards,
Carl
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Old 03-12-2007, 07:11 PM   #250
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may your days be enjoyable w/o rc racings. godspeed and godbless.

but there are MANY RC things to do where tire traction is not needed. rock climbing, monster truck racing, drag racing, heli's, etc etc...

its like cigarettes, either you use it, or you dont. there are alternatives, and if you dont like where you race cuz they wont ban it, you move on... enjoy the hobby...
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Old 03-12-2007, 07:59 PM   #251
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Thanks guys......

Yeah I thought about doing just rubber tire outdoors in the summer, but there is just not enough of that type of racing up here in Canada to make it interesting. Also not racing through the winter would decrease my skills and I am far to competitive by nature to want to give up any skills. Plus I would still have exposure to these chemicals (although much less than indoor racing) and my health is to the point now that I think I need get away from them completely. I considered off-road, especially given Tamiya's new hot offroad stuff, but again I think that would tempt me to try Touring cars again which would be bad. So for me, a clean break is best.
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Old 03-12-2007, 08:05 PM   #252
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Wow....It has come to this that a wheel like Martin Crisp is forced to quite racing based on the chemicals we use on our tires. I remember meeting Martin at the track Roar Carpet nats about 6 years ago. Was a nice guy then, and is an even nicer guy now. Hope that the companies that produce the tire tractions are reading this and try to do something.
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Old 03-12-2007, 08:06 PM   #253
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hopefully no one thinks that Jack the Gripper causes people any less problems (though often different people)...
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Old 03-12-2007, 08:25 PM   #254
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the following was posted on our forum and I think it probably speaks for alot of us at FastCats and in Canada in general.....

Quote:
IT IS A SAD DAY FOR RC RACING

====================================

Martin, it has been a pleasure watching you race.

Most of us had our first venture into organized racing through the TCS and being schooled by the way you drive your TAMIYA cars.

You have always been the benchmark by which everyone here at FastCats and I'd say in Canada is measured against.

You have provided lots of motivation for the rest of us to keep trying to get better knowing that there is one among us who is successful.

So sorry to see you go but rightfully respect your decision. I agree with your choice.

Too bad for the guys at Tamiya USA ... they can't wrestle the Past Champions crown from you now.

Good luck.
Wishing Martin all the best in the future!
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Old 03-12-2007, 08:38 PM   #255
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Martin, I hate to see you go, but your health is more important...best of luck to you and your next hobby!
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