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Old 04-13-2006, 09:32 PM   #226
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Hector,

I'll give ya that on the smoking. It's probably one of the worst things you can do for your body. So those of you that are smokers...I think traction compound is the least of your worries.

The driving cars comment, nah, no points for that one man! We need those.

I guess I am one of the fortunate who don't have any reactions to Paragon or Jack the Gripper. I guess the only thing I notice with a Paragon-filled track is that my eyes are a little drier, but that's it.

Obviously we can't always make everyone happy. I do not think that banning traction compounds is a step that should be taken. Like some have mentioned, Perhaps traction compounds should go under and approval process much like so many other things in this hobby/sport. At the very least , we as racers should know what we're dealing with. Primary ingredients of these products should be listed, along with the concentrations of these potentially harmful substances. More of an effort needs to come from manufacturers of these products to produce (reasonably) safe compounds to use. I'm sure with some research, it can be accomplished easily. Now I'm no chemist, an engineer-to-be, but those of you who are chemists and/or lab technicians can help our community. What kinds of substances are out there that, in combination, can produce similar results to paragon or jack the gripper?
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Old 04-13-2006, 09:39 PM   #227
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Old 04-13-2006, 11:13 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dal bains
Martin--
I too was sick (headaches, chest, weezing etc) for almost two weeks after the carpet nationals, dont know what exactly but it might have been the sauce....Nats ended Sunday, I didnt get back to work till Friday..
Boy this is getting good... lets see... you put a couple hundred guys from all over the country together in one room for 3 or 4 days... generally with out getting enough sleep and maybe some partying and someone gets sick... amazing
I too was sick the last day of the Novak race... I am sure it had nothing to do with the guy who pitted next to me.... who came to the race sick... I am sure it had to be the traction compound
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Old 04-14-2006, 11:18 AM   #229
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Old 04-14-2006, 11:58 AM   #230
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we've just elevated rc racing to the next level...now we need for our pit guy is to wear a McClaren Mercedes Pit Suit...
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Old 04-14-2006, 12:01 PM   #231
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A message I've forward on to ROAR via e-mail:

Also I wanted to talk with you and the committee about a topic of concern that has made its way on rctech and something ROAR needs to consider. The title / concerns are the potential health concerns using traction compounds and chemical products in the RC industry at various race venues, especially indoor events.

Martin Crisp has started the forum and it has gained momentum.

I’ve been active in the discussion and in my opinion, the manufacturers must be required to label and identify (making the user fully aware) of the potential risks associated with the use of the products. Example: the pactra spray cans now have labels on them which make the user aware that the use of this product may cause birth defects.

It’s something ROAR needs to address…for lack of a better word, these “witches brew” which are so commonly used in RC do not disclose the potential dangers in using their products or even the ingredients used so racers can take the necessary precautions.

I’m not suggesting we start banning products at this time. However the manufacturers at a minimum must disclose the chemicals used and or potential health risk associated with the chemical composition and the necessary precautionary measures to be taken in using the products. This does not seem like an unreasonable request. Lets talk about it.
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Old 04-14-2006, 01:00 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McGreevy

Obviously we can't always make everyone happy. I do not think that banning traction compounds is a step that should be taken. Like some have mentioned, Perhaps traction compounds should go under and approval process much like so many other things in this hobby/sport. At the very least , we as racers should know what we're dealing with. Primary ingredients of these products should be listed, along with the concentrations of these potentially harmful substances. More of an effort needs to come from manufacturers of these products to produce (reasonably) safe compounds to use. I'm sure with some research, it can be accomplished easily. Now I'm no chemist, an engineer-to-be, but those of you who are chemists and/or lab technicians can help our community. What kinds of substances are out there that, in combination, can produce similar results to paragon or jack the gripper?
All traction compounds have a natural sovent (Naptha, MEK, Lacquer Thinner, Mineral Spirits, etc.) as its main ingrediant. These compounds open the pores of the rubber and soften it. The best solvent for softening tires is Toulene but it is hugely toxic (its the lead in leaded gasoline).

The secondary component is a viscosity modifier (some kind of oil) that keeps the solvent from evaporating too quickly. The oils can also condition the rubber.

The problem with making a safer traction compound is the need for a natural solvent. The nastier they are the better they are as traction additives. The safer stuff dosen't work at all or dosen't last.
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Old 04-14-2006, 01:39 PM   #233
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Adrian,

With that said, we the consumers / racers should at least know exactly what were dealing with...It seems we have ignored this concern for a long time and Martin has jumped started it.
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Old 04-14-2006, 02:39 PM   #234
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No offense but toluene is NOT the lead in leaded gasoline. Toluene is a solvent like methyl ethyl ketone (MEK), acetone, xylene, etc. The lead in leaded gasoline is organic lead which contains... LEAD. Currently, the only fuel still produced that contains lead is aviation gasoline for prop planes.

Thanks for breaking down the components of traction fluid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
All traction compounds have a natural sovent (Naptha, MEK, Lacquer Thinner, Mineral Spirits, etc.) as its main ingrediant. These compounds open the pores of the rubber and soften it. The best solvent for softening tires is Toulene but it is hugely toxic (its the lead in leaded gasoline).

The secondary component is a viscosity modifier (some kind of oil) that keeps the solvent from evaporating too quickly. The oils can also condition the rubber.

The problem with making a safer traction compound is the need for a natural solvent. The nastier they are the better they are as traction additives. The safer stuff dosen't work at all or dosen't last.
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Old 04-14-2006, 02:48 PM   #235
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natural solvent or organic solvent?
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Old 04-14-2006, 03:00 PM   #236
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Toluene, MEK, acetone are organic compounds.
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Old 04-14-2006, 03:25 PM   #237
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i dipped my cig in paragon took a hit and it killed me.
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Old 04-15-2006, 10:56 AM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianM
All traction compounds have a natural sovent (Naptha, MEK, Lacquer Thinner, Mineral Spirits, etc.) as its main ingrediant. These compounds open the pores of the rubber and soften it. The best solvent for softening tires is Toulene but it is hugely toxic (its the lead in leaded gasoline).

The secondary component is a viscosity modifier (some kind of oil) that keeps the solvent from evaporating too quickly. The oils can also condition the rubber.

The problem with making a safer traction compound is the need for a natural solvent. The nastier they are the better they are as traction additives. The safer stuff dosen't work at all or dosen't last.

No offense, but they all don't have them and they don't need to contain them, if you are talking about changing rubber.

Tetra-ethyl lead is the lead compound used in leaded gasoline. Leaded gas can be purchased at any racing fuel shop ( common in the southern USA - NASCAR county ) It is available in 103, 105 ,108, 110, and 112 octane - (R+N)/2.

Last, no viscosity modifier will effect the vapor pressure of a single chemical when you apply a thin film on a tire. The higher the vapor pressure the quicker a chemical will evaporate.

Hope this helps

Randy
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Old 04-15-2006, 08:15 PM   #239
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Well, I have been away for the past couple of days visiting family etc. Looks like there has continued to be some great discussion on this obviously sensitive topic. This dialog is a great start that I hope will help generate a reasonable change for the positive.

Carl - Thanks for sending the email to Roar. Is there anyway you can find out when the execomm will be putting this topic on an agenda for discussion?

I have read a couple of times that the manuf. might have to disclose by law the MSDS sheets. If this is so can someone explain to me the process one would have to go through to get this done?

I have not received a response from Corally, Niftech or Orion on the emails I have sent them asking to discuss this topic. I guess I am not surprised, but certainly concerned by this lack of response. Perhaps they get so many emails they just have not ready mine yet? Randy thanks again for being the only manufacture (Tracktac) so far to contribute to this dialog. I hope to start the testing of your products this coming weekend.

There were a few comments in the thread suggesting that people got sick at big races because of not enough sleep, too much drinking, or just catching a bug from someone else. These are certainly viable explanations, just like it is viable that the traction compounds caused these health issues. For the folks that made those arguments, are you suggesting that this somehow reduces the importance of finding safer compounds and giving consumers full disclosure on the health risks etc.....?
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Old 04-15-2006, 10:53 PM   #240
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To get an MSDS, contact the manufacturer. If they do not give it to you within a reasonable amount of time (a week is more than enough), then contact the OSHA office responsible for their state.
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