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Old 04-13-2006, 12:19 AM   #211
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g_bruin,

Some good info and perspective...Thank you.

Is there a documented parts per million that if exceeded is considered un-safe for MeS?

Thanks.
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Old 04-13-2006, 02:48 AM   #212
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Please remeber, this is a competitive sport. Our performances are relative to each other. If we all race without certain chemicals then that is fair no matter what. In real motorsports, there have been many drastic rule changes, teams grumble; but racing continues.

I believe this issue has to start at t he top level of international competitions. If the World Championships, Reedys and ITCs were were to bann traction compounds and impound tires like radios, then it would work its way to the local level, where racers want to compete like the "big dogs". My local club runs races with IFMAR qualifying.

There are hundreds of thousands of chemicals in industry and as stated only a very few are tested and regulated. I have worked in Industrial Safety and Health for nearly twenty years. More often than I would like to remember a chemical has been regulated and replaced by a more toxic non-reguluated chemical.

While many of us are old enough to look out for ourselves, some like myself have children, who we want to share our hobby with and do not want to harm.

This is not an easy subject, but if we consider the health of others and remember we are still competing with each other no matter how the rules change.
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Old 04-13-2006, 07:05 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris08527
unless it lets us pick up a couple of tenths . . .
Unfortunately, I really need those extra couple of tenths....
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Old 04-13-2006, 07:37 AM   #214
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At a minimum this forum has accomplished something significant (at least for those who have read it) and that is precautionary measures should be used when working with and around chemical products used during racing.

Personally, I’m not ready to quit racing and my I’ve received great news last night…MRI and MRA scans ruled out tumors / abnormal cell growth...etc…unfortunately, the increase in migraine / cluster headaches and occasional blurry vision is still unexplainable. (except they seem to occur more frequently after working with chemical products)

With that said, I will exercise extreme caution when exposed to chemicals until safer products become readily available. (I hope those reading this will take this seriously)

For me extra precautions mean:
1.) use of solvent resistant gloves (latex / nitril)
2.) a fan around my pit station to improve air circulation (even outdoors)
3.) When indoors, pit as close to a ventilation system or open door way and take a few minutes between rounds to go outside
4.) All traction compounds and chemical products when not in use will be stored in zip lock bag even while at a race
5.) Protective eye wear
6.) A hand cleaner or “wet ones” used frequently throughout the day
7.) Use of non-lead based solder
8.) A high-quality mask while having to pit for someone and working with exhaust fumes.

Having access to ROAR and the Rev-up Publications, my next article will start as a reminder to all ROAR members to exercise certain precautions when working with chemicals to minimize unnecessary exposure.
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Old 04-13-2006, 07:55 AM   #215
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I usually don't add to the threads such as this since most of the time it is rehashing the same issues again and again; however, there have been many good points discussed in this particular thread. I am glad to see there is active discussion on the dangers of the materials we use in racing. There is no clear and easy solution to addressing the problems faced when using traction compounds, motor sprays, paints, Dremel tool on carbon fiber, etc.

I did want to address one particular point, even at the expense of neglecting most of the others. As a chemist, at all times I know what chemicals I am working with in the laboratory. When I'm using acetone, calcium carbonate, or osmium tetroxide(!), I know what precautions I should take during the handling of the materials. When I go to the race track, for the most part it's a 'black bottle' - an unknown. I don't know which and how many components are in the traction compounds we use.

When I step out of the laboratory and go to the race track, it's potentially more dangerous to my health. It is unfortunate the sellers of traction compounds are unwilling to disclose the components used in their products. I understand why a manufacturer desires to keep the contents secret from competing manufacturers. This benefits the manufacturer, at the potential expense of the health of the consumer. I feel uncomfortable using traction compounds with, unknown to me, 'proprietary components'. I have no idea the nature of these chemicals, (are they alcohols, hydrocarbons, halogenated aromatics, dioxins?) nor can I estimate my risk of acute and chronic exposure without know what is found in these, for the lack of a better term, 'witches brews'.

I have stated in the past that it would be a very good idea for the manufacturers of the products to voluntarily disclose a list of the chemicals found in the products they are selling. I even agreed to host the list on a webpage, but ROAR would be better suited for that. If such a list were available, then anyone (racers, tracks) could decide which traction compound is suited for their needs to balance racing performance and health & safety aspects. I'll restate that voluntarily disclosing this information is a better option for both manufacturers and racers than involving a government agency.

As an aside, each racer should limit their exposure to most of the chemicals whenever possible. This includes using gloves when cleaning motors and applying traction compounds (especially those whose contents are unknown - which at this point in time is every traction compound on the market), washing hands before eating or rubbing their eyes (to minimize exposure to lead/tin as well as other chemicals), and we should also wear a face mask while using a Dremel the carbon fiber chassis and painting that new body. These are precautions we should take, but more realistically one should realize that each person is going to be influenced differently by any particular chemical and therefore should use the 'appropriate' individual behavior (more trips for fresh air, PPE, etc.). Personally, I would prefer to see all motor sprays banned from indoor use, since those volatile chemicals influence me more strongly than traction compounds.

Mike Lufaso
'When you outlaw traction compound, only outlaws will have traction compound.'
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Old 04-13-2006, 01:07 PM   #216
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Every company is required to produce an MSDS for every product they create regardless if there are any 'trade secrets'. They don't necessarily have to list propietary mixtures but they must disclose the health hazards, first aid, emergency response, etc. This is so that they (or anyone else that uses it) can inform their workers of the hazard to ensure that they are protected. Consumer laws are a bit more lax but it would be nice if there was a repository for these MSDSs so that consumers like us can review them.

Also note that MS is use as a flavoring in foods, odorant, and perfumes.

There isn't a recommended ppm concentration for exposure to MS.
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Old 04-13-2006, 01:30 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shookie
Yea the only thing that stinks is it isn't available in California...LOL
I would love to try their sst formula...Might help in those really nicely preped tracks...and the Orage and grape for those not so well preped tracks for asphalt racing..
Looks promissing...
But lets just say if they aren't allowed to sell in California that there is something in it that is harmfull...LOL
-Shookie <><
Then my friend i would like to introduce you to the wonderful world of Jack The Gripper. It's can put an even better grove on hte track than paragon can it's not harmful and the best part......

NO SMELL!
If you are heading down the IIC race in vegas this year and try out our Jack The Gripper. You won't be dissapointed. It really is a great tire compound.

Heck Trackside WI been using it for the past 2 years and it works great!

-Lee
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Old 04-13-2006, 01:38 PM   #218
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How do you know Jack the Gripper is not harmful?
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Old 04-13-2006, 02:01 PM   #219
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Martin--Motor spray also screws up my skin, drys my hands out and other stuff...

I think Jack the Raper (Jack The Gripper) is harmfull like most other tire sauces, no smell doesnt mean its safe. I only raced with foams for a few weeks, just getting that stuff all over the hands and clothes was bad. With rubber it wasnt a big deal, didnt have to rub it out with towels, just wipe.


I too was sick (headaches, chest, weezing etc) for almost two weeks after the carpet nationals, dont know what exactly but it might have been the sauce....Nats ended Sunday, I didnt get back to work till Friday..
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Old 04-13-2006, 03:17 PM   #220
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I too was sick (headaches, chest, weezing etc) for almost two weeks after the carpet nationals, dont know what exactly but it might have been the sauce....Nats ended Sunday, I didnt get back to work till Friday..[/QUOTE]
I'm sure all the drinking had nothing to do with you getting sick?
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Old 04-13-2006, 03:22 PM   #221
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I've been keeping kind of quiet on this issue but, ever since I started racing RC cars my allergies have worsened, I've been more tired and in general have felt pretty crappy. I've attributed these symptoms to other things but, what if traction compound was causing it...

It really makes you wonder??...
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Old 04-13-2006, 03:25 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juan Aveytia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dal Bains
I too was sick (headaches, chest, weezing etc) for almost two weeks after the carpet nationals, dont know what exactly but it might have been the sauce....Nats ended Sunday, I didnt get back to work till Friday..
I'm sure all the drinking had nothing to do with you getting sick?
...or the bag of anthrax in his luggage
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Old 04-13-2006, 03:35 PM   #223
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Really? Jack has never bothered me, paragon sure has though...
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Old 04-13-2006, 03:48 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letitroll
I've been keeping kind of quiet on this issue but, ever since I started racing RC cars my allergies have worsened, I've been more tired and in general have felt pretty crappy. I've attributed these symptoms to other things but, what if traction compound was causing it...

It really makes you wonder??...
That is definitely a possibility. There is always a risk of being more sensitive to certain chemicals than others. For those of you who do feel nauseas after exposure, then you should consider protections such as running a fan, gloves, etc.

No smell does NOT equal no harm. Carbon monoxide is odorless but it is pretty deadly...
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Old 04-13-2006, 07:02 PM   #225
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How many people on this thread smoke? Or even drive a car?
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