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XRAY T4'21 Spec

Old 01-16-2021, 05:41 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Danton88 View Post
How does the shorty pack fit? I'm just getting back into on-road my last touring car was a xray T2' 007

Last year I purchased a new xt2c 2019 and the last time I raced a stadium truck was 2007. Wanted to see if any of my current shorty packs would work in the new 2021 cars.

Just want to get back into on road cars.
Xray sells a kit to use shorties in the T4, it includes long weights that basically move the existing battery retainers inwards.
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Old 01-16-2021, 07:32 PM
  #152  
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ThAnks for sharing your set up Mark. It was fun watching you race.
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Old 01-17-2021, 06:57 PM
  #153  
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Hey Xray Drivers,
What is the handling difference in the rear between 3 degrees toe in board pin and 1 degree block with 2 degrees in?
Thanks and God Bless,
B
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Old 01-18-2021, 02:51 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
If you switch to a car that has 9mm longer arms and you "crash less", it's either the setup that is (miles) better, or the car that is more "mechanically sound", or the assembly that went better, or the driver that improved, or...

But not the 9mm or the MM structural side of things... I'm sorry, it's just not. Had the T4'19 been a shitty ill-handling platform, I could agree, but it sure wasn't a dog of a car that would snap on you anytime at all. This was the case when cars were evolving 25 years ago and people would go from a Yokomo M2 to a MR4-TC... HUGE technical changes, and change of materials, and change of layout, and.... like quantum leap.....
When the '20 first came out I ran it back to back with the '19 (during one practice run) with the brand new set of the same tyres on each car, and even switched the bodyshell between cars to keep everything the same.
The '20 had a lot more steering and I could get it through the corners whilst being less aggressive, and last but not least, it was faster.
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Old 01-18-2021, 06:22 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Jsaves View Post
Hey Xray Drivers,
What is the handling difference in the rear between 3 degrees toe in board pin and 1 degree block with 2 degrees in?
Thanks and God Bless,
B
The purpose of this is so the rear arm pins aren't bound as much at the 3 degree angle. Running the rear pins at a 2 degree opposed to 3 degree will allow the rear arms and suspension to operate more efficient, less mechanical resistance so to speak. Also in return will generate slightly more rear grip and a more consistent chassis.
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Old 01-19-2021, 02:47 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
When the '20 first came out I ran it back to back with the '19 (during one practice run) with the brand new set of the same tyres on each car, and even switched the bodyshell between cars to keep everything the same.
The '20 had a lot more steering and I could get it through the corners whilst being less aggressive, and last but not least, it was faster.
I don't disagree - and you are a top-decile driver so you can drive fast and consistently enough to feel these changes. Here we are talking about "crashing less", so this is a different level of discussion...
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Old 01-19-2021, 03:05 AM
  #157  
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Originally Posted by sps3172 View Post
So you concede that using a setup that is 'miles better' could be responsible for a racer crashing less.....but to attribute the same type of improvement to a MAJOR structural change in the chassis would be a bridge too far?
I see what you are saying and I regret my earlier poor wording.

Let me try again.

The pre-MM T4 cars are a very mature, consistent platform, and not crashy cars that snap on the driver like a $99 aliexpress RTR touring car.

I am saying that if you are "crashing less" it means that you were "crashing" before. If you crash often enough with a T4 '19 to notice such a change, it means that the previous car was "ill", either because it was not mechanically sound, or because your previous setup was miles outside of the setup window, and I mean not just half a millimeter of roll-centers up or down or whatever but more like totally f'ed up with . So really the delta between new car and old car setup is miles apart because the previous one was miles off, not because the new one is inherently miles better per se.

If we try to quantify the average lap times improvements from Joe Schmoe Driver by going from the T4 '19 to "new T4", it's probably at best a couple of tenths per lap. I know, I own both. Granted, this is big enough if you're playing the top of the A-main, still keep in mind we are talking 1% or 2% on a 10s lap here... not a quantum leap like "crash less".

For the record, last time we raced pre-covid, one of the local hotshoes had just purchased a new, heavily discounted T4 '19 and he won with it, including the other local hotshoes that he usually races with (and who also sometimes win, too) with the newer 800MMX and T4 '20's. This is not to conclude that the T4 '19 is better, but rather that there is less of a difference between the older and newer T4 platform than marketing and the internet would like you to believe.

Hope this helps explain it.
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Old 01-19-2021, 03:09 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by NEED-MORE-SPEED View Post
The purpose of this is so the rear arm pins aren't bound as much at the 3 degree angle. Running the rear pins at a 2 degree opposed to 3 degree will allow the rear arms and suspension to operate more efficient, less mechanical resistance so to speak. Also in return will generate slightly more rear grip and a more consistent chassis.
Isn't the sum of the binding in inner+outer equal in terms of resistance at the wheel as we are moving the binding from the inner to the outer pivot joint?
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Old 01-19-2021, 03:24 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post

For the record, last time we raced pre-covid, one of the local hotshoes had just purchased a new, heavily discounted T4 '19 and he won with it, including the other local hotshoes that he usually races with (and who also sometimes win, too) with the newer 800MMX and T4 '20's. This is not to conclude that the T4 '19 is better, but rather that there is less of a difference between the older and newer T4 platform than marketing and the internet would like you to believe.

Hope this helps explain it.
If we speak about same guy, this is only prove money grubbing can do miracle ! LOL
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Old 01-19-2021, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Lonestar View Post
Isn't the sum of the binding in inner+outer equal in terms of resistance at the wheel as we are moving the binding from the inner to the outer pivot joint?
Not at all... The inner rear arm pins will have 1 degree less angle allowing the arms/suspension to operate in a much smoother manner. The outer pivot joint you ask about remains the same as we are replacing the outside zero degree hub with a 1 degree hub so this doesn't affect the movement of the outer pin. Hope this helps
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Old 01-20-2021, 02:15 AM
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Also, you'll have about a longer wheelbase with the 2deg inner, due to less arm sweep.
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Old 01-20-2021, 02:23 AM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by NEED-MORE-SPEED View Post
Not at all... The inner rear arm pins will have 1 degree less angle allowing the arms/suspension to operate in a much smoother manner. The outer pivot joint you ask about remains the same as we are replacing the outside zero degree hub with a 1 degree hub so this doesn't affect the movement of the outer pin. Hope this helps
Is this more a US black carpet tip? Iíve not seen this on any European setup sheets carpet/asphalt.
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Old 01-20-2021, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by NEED-MORE-SPEED View Post
Not at all... The inner rear arm pins will have 1 degree less angle allowing the arms/suspension to operate in a much smoother manner. The outer pivot joint you ask about remains the same as we are replacing the outside zero degree hub with a 1 degree hub so this doesn't affect the movement of the outer pin. Hope this helps
d'uh of course! Thank you
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Old 01-20-2021, 05:47 AM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by BKUK View Post
Is this more a US black carpet tip? Iíve not seen this on any European setup sheets carpet/asphalt.
Yes. Most of the team guys here in the U.S. are running 2 degree pins and 1 degree outer hub on the carpet for a total of 3 degree rear toe

Drivers are using the ARS on the asphalt so this will eliminate the use of a 1 degree hub all together. However with the ARS I've seen team guys narrow down the rear suspension pins to 1 degree as you get full toe adjustability on the ARS with the turnbuckles.
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Old 01-20-2021, 05:54 AM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by TryHard View Post
Also, you'll have about a longer wheelbase with the 2deg inner, due to less arm sweep.
You do get less arm sweep which does give a longer wheelbase, this is correct. However keep in mind when you replace the zero degree rear hub with the 1 degree hub, your adding back in the toe angle you removed from the pins. This should help offset that wheelbase adjustment from the outer hub.

Last edited by NEED-MORE-SPEED; 01-20-2021 at 06:34 AM.
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