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Old 03-24-2006, 03:33 PM   #1
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Default IB4200's and spintec batman

having just purchased some vtec 4200's i am wondering if i should use them with the spintec as i am aware that it can take cells below the stated 0.9v (5.4 per pack) and i have heard that the ib cells really do not like this and tips for discharging and equalizing these cells. I have a novak smart tray and pro trak (20 amp discharge) and also a futaba cdr5000 (35 amp discharge) im guessing i should take the pack down to 6v on the pro trak or futaba as i think my usual 5.4v might be a little risky with the ib's and then equalize to 0.9 on the smart tray, but would welcome any other tips

thanks
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Old 03-24-2006, 05:39 PM   #2
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Put them on the Pro Trak @20A till 5.4V, then go for the NOVAK Smart Tray @0.9V.

I do not recommend to put them on the Spintec, as it discharges the overall pack to a very low voltage. Much lower then on a normal discharge unit like the Pro-Trak, which cuts-off at the desired voltage under 20A load.

Also I do not see any advantage when discharging the battery with the Spintec. During my tests, the packs always perfomed the same. Not worse, but also not better performance wise.

Cheers
Andy
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Old 03-25-2006, 04:48 AM   #3
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If may make a comment to this, the Battery Manager does not discharge to a low voltage. Because of the Coolflex current (a block of 35 amps followed by a cooling down period), the load on a pack is much less than with a conventional 'hard' 20 or 30 amps. In the cooling down period the voltage will bounce back a little.

So yes, the Battery Manager can get the pack 'more empty', but NOT to a lower voltage. This is why this process works so great.
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Old 03-25-2006, 05:04 AM   #4
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yes spintec does keep the whole pack above 5.4volts.

BUT when it takes it to 5.4, even though the AVERAGE may be 5.4volts, some cells are below 0.9volts, and once a cells reach below 0.9volts any load applied to the cell (especially at 35amps) will reach ZERO volts very fast.

using multimeter, i tested individual cells whilst discharging and even though the whole pack was 5.4volts some cells was well below 0.9volts... somthing like 0.3volts...
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Old 03-25-2006, 06:05 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Jonk
So yes, the Battery Manager can get the pack 'more empty', but NOT to a lower voltage. This is why this process works so great.
Erik,

Maybe my Spintec didnt work correctly then because I could take a pack after being discharged on the spintec and put in in my Novak tray and have to set the voltage to the 0.4-0.5V range to get the cells to equalize. Follow the same proccess using my GFX discharging @ 30A, and the Novak tray voltage can be set to 0.9V to equalize.

I dont follow how the cells being "more empty" causes the voltage required to equalize to be so low. Can you help explain this?

Thanks,
Jimmy
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Old 03-25-2006, 06:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g12314
Erik,

I dont follow how the cells being "more empty" causes the voltage required to equalize to be so low. Can you help explain this?

Thanks,
Jimmy
if i get what you mean correctly, my answer is because the lowest cell voltage is already below 0.9V that's why you need lower voltage in the smart tray after you discharge it with spintec.
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Old 03-25-2006, 08:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlinezak
having just purchased some vtec 4200's i am wondering if i should use them with the spintec as i am aware that it can take cells below the stated 0.9v (5.4 per pack) and i have heard that the ib cells really do not like this and tips for discharging and equalizing these cells. I have a novak smart tray and pro trak (20 amp discharge) and also a futaba cdr5000 (35 amp discharge) im guessing i should take the pack down to 6v on the pro trak or futaba as i think my usual 5.4v might be a little risky with the ib's and then equalize to 0.9 on the smart tray, but would welcome any other tips

thanks
The Spintec is better than the 'hard discharge', you could always keep an eye on it and just take it off at your desired pack voltage, then finish it off on the Smart Tray.

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Old 03-25-2006, 09:24 AM   #8
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yeah i think that might be my best bet as i have also found that when discharging on the spintec and then putting the cells on my smart tray the lights go straight out unless i go to under o.6v. The only problem with that would be that i know there would be at least one time when i forgot to stop the batman and i could well kill the cells i think i will use the pro trak and smart tray and just use the batman once every now and then when im at home and can keep a close eye on the cells. Erik would using the batman once every few weeks still have a positive effect on the cells or does it need to be used regularly to have the desired effect?

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Old 03-25-2006, 09:59 AM   #9
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Erik,
sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes, the Batman takes more charge out of the battery then if you would normally have if you discharge the pack at a linear high current.
But what I have seen is, that discharging the battery with the Batman and then putting it on a Smart Tray @0.9V, the LEDs immediately go out. Thatīs why I have said, that it discharges them to a lower voltage. Which isnīt 100% correct, so Iīm sorry.

IMHO I think it takes out too much charge for the current new type of cells like IB4200, VTEC4200 or GP4300, causing them to loose runtime after some cycles.

Anyway, for the VTEC batteries, I would still recommend using a linear high current with a cutoff @5.4V, then the Smart Tray @0.9V, then (after the cells have completely cooled down) put them on the charger.

To be honest, I really donīt feel a difference when using the Batman or a "standard" discharger. But thatīs my own opinion. There are many other users, who feel a difference, so I donīt want to start a discussion nor do I want to bash any products. So please, donīt get me wrong.

Best regards,
Andy
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Old 03-25-2006, 02:54 PM   #10
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i found if you want to keep individual cells above 0.9v, if using the spintec you need to pull the spintec off when the voltage reaches 7.0volts, any lower will risk individual cells go below 0.9v and also render your equlizing process on the smart tray useless. but since the process takes so long, i always ended up forgetting and letting it go well below 6volts
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Old 03-25-2006, 03:11 PM   #11
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I have a question about the way of threatment with these IB 3800/4200 cells.

You guys all say discharge not under 0.9v.

What i do now with the cells is this:

Discharge on the orion, (20amp 5.4v cut off) let it cooldown.
Then equalize it on a robitronic tray.(goes below the 0.9 don't know exactly how far.)
Then charge it.

I did this cause i saw the SMC-racing site and they even equalize the cells till 0.
But you all say it's no good.
Can you guys give me a proper handling for my batts cause i like to use them longer.


Thanks for your help,

Arjen
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Old 03-25-2006, 03:43 PM   #12
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arjen i believe the information you are referring to regarding the 0v is related to the gp 3300 and 3700 cells. These cells apparently were not quite so fragile regarding lower voltages however i believe the ib 3800 and 4200 cells really do not like going below 0.9v per cell (i have seen from some matchers they are advising not to allow the cells below 1.0v) I would suggest if it is possible for you to get hold of a tray that has a cut off of0.9v or above such as maybe the novak or teamwave type.

hth
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Old 03-26-2006, 06:26 AM   #13
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yes a couple of guys at the track where i run my EP experienced that already, they put their IB3800 too long on the batman and it killed a few cells.
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Old 03-26-2006, 06:56 AM   #14
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Spintec killed 5 of my expensive race packs and I have since sold this useless device away. After discharging with the Spintec, I tray it on the Novak smart tray and the lights will only stay on when I set it to 0.3V!! I start to realise that 1 or 2 cells in a pack would go bad. One misunderstanding is that after using Spintec, the battery can take more charge. Thats becos Spintec discharges more deeply. This product really sucks and I would advise any one I met in the RC community to keep their hard earned cash and stay away from this [email protected] I am not the only one who suffers, the rest of the racers in my country have sold theirs too after having the same problem..
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Old 03-26-2006, 02:29 PM   #15
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I for one did not like the results I got with my spintec at all It did increase the runtime in my older pack but the IR's went way up and the Voltage over the first 300 seconds of the discharge took a hit.

As far as IB4200's go I would discharge the pack down to 5.4 volts after running it then equalizing them before I charge them again.

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