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Beginner Spec GT Thread

Old 09-06-2020, 03:31 PM
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Default Beginner Spec GT Thread

Greetings onroad racers!

I have been working on this concept along with Mantoya for the last few weeks (in addition to some other things non-RC related) because I've been following some rather interesting (and at times spirited) discussion about onroad racing as a whole. I have been doing some research (and continuing to really after some very helpful comments) along with another poster and decided to try to come up with something that serves a couple of purposes:

1. Offers those new to RC onroad (whether young or young at heart) a relatively low-cost point of entry option for entering into RC racing
2. Offer a lower pressure class option where beginners can learn and develop their skills before moving on to faster classes (Stock TC, USGT, VTA, etc.)
3. Offer a class option where racers can take their gear with them as they progress or transfer to another up and coming driver

Ive been interested in the RC hobby since I was 9 years old when I was first introduced to Radio Control Car Action magazine in my dad's pharmacy. I didnt get my first "hobby grade" RC car until 10 years later. I have seen a lot of classes come and go despite only getting into racing back in January, but one thing I have noticed is many classes started with the idea of cost control and being beginner friendly, but what more often than not ended up happening was the experienced guys saw another class to get involved in, and before you knew it, cost control was out the window and you had either a dead class or a class with $500 chassis and $150 motors and motor analyzers and $100 batteries and various "dark arts" that beginners are not aware of (because they are beginners) and so they are left on the sidelines because they can't keep up with the "arms race" and many end up giving up. I thought Id come up witha class that could be encapsultated in the idea of a "low cost spec class for all that also isn't overburdened with tons of rules that could leave loopholes to be exploited. Some things are still to be worked out but here is what I have come up with so far:Beginner Spec GT



Chassis

Any shaft driven 4WD TC chassis with an MSRP <$260 (Ive had people discuss allowing belt driven chassis that fall within the price spectrum but the goal again is simplicity and not setting up a Pandora's Box that could allow the higher end chassis to end up in in the class)
Example chassis: Traxxas 4Tec (not VXL), Yokomo SD9, Carisma M40S, Kyosho Fazer MkII, Tamiya TT01E, Tamiya TT02)



Motor

Hobbywing SD G2.1 21.5T (Purchased and marked at the track by race director) (exact wind subject to change following further testing)



ESC

Hobbywing XR10 Justock (motor/ESC combo runs 99.99, must be ordered and purchased from the track and motor marked by race director as noted above)



Battery

Any 2S battery 5000mAh max capacity 50C max discharge rate, plug type connector (no bullet connectors)

Body

190mm or 200mm GT body based on an FIA GT recognized and homologated race vehicle (preliminary list below)



Tire

Gravity RC USGT Pre-Mounted Rubber Tires (P/N GRC124)

5mm minimum ride height



Replacement parts at track discretion



Things to remember
  1. This is a BEGINNER class. This is designed as a class with a fairly reasonable cost of entry. There are not a ton of rules intentionally so as to not overburden new racers
  2. Anyone who is thinking to gain a competitive advantage in a BEGINNER class...(lightening the chassis, buying blinged out hop up parts, water dipping or advancing the timing on the motor, etc.), this class is not for you. You want to do all that, take it to the touring car class at your track (Note: All decisions are at the discretion of the race director and are final up to and including exclusion of a racer seen as too advanced for the class)
  3. Have fun.
Approved Body List

Delta Plastik

Dodge Viper (PN #0049)

Lotus Elise (PN #0050)

Maserati MC12 (PN #0407)

Panoz Esperante GTR-1 (PN #0402)

Porsche 911 (PN #0037)



McAllister Racing

2004 Corvette (PN #191)

LeMans Corvette C6 (PN #311)

Mercedes DTM (PN #282)

Ford Mustang Cobra (PN #192)

Ford Mustang MX-Stang PN #307)



HPI Racing

BMW M3 GT (PN #7352)

BMW M3 GT (PN #7452 200mm)

BMW M3 GT2 E92 (PN #17548 200mm)

Chevrolet Corvette C6 (PN #17503 200mm)

Ford Mustang GT-R (PN #17504 200mm)

Nissan 350Z Greddy Twin Turbo (PN #17218)

Nissan 350Z GT (PN #7385)

Nissan 350Z GT (PN #7485 200mm)

Nissan 350Z Hankook (PN #103886)

Nissan Skyline R34 GT-R (PN # 7327)

Nissan Skyline R34 GT-R (PN #7467 200mm)

Nissan GT-R (PN #17538 200 mm)

Porsche 911 Turbo (PN #7335)

Porsche 911 GT1 (PN #7038 200mm)

Porsche 911 GT3 RSR (PN #108370)

Porsche 911 GT3 RS (PN #17541 200mm)

Toyota Supra Aero (PN #17539 200mm)



Mon Tech Racing

Lamborghini Huracan Trofeo GST (PN #MB-019-008)

RS GT3 (MB-020-004)



Pitlane Hobbies

Gillet Vertigo (PN #PLVertigo)

Aston Martin GT (PN # PLAMGTV2)

Marcos LM600 (PN #PLLM600



Protoform Race Bodies

Cadillac ATS-V.R (PN #1543-30)

Chevrolet Camaro Z28 (PN #1544-30)

Chevrolet Corvette C7.R (PN #1557-30)

Chevrolet Corvette C8 (PN # 1574-25)

Ford GT (PN #1550-25)



Tamiya

Ferrari 458 GT (PN #51526)

Ford Mustang GT4 (PN #47444)

Honda NSX Raybrig (PN #51563)

Honda NSX GT (PN #47353)

Honda HSV-010 Raybrig (PN #51429)

Lexus RC-F Toms (PN #47318)

Mercedes AMG GT3 (PN #51590)

Mercedes AMG GT3 (PN #47368)

Nissan GT-R R32 (PN #51365)

Nissan GT-R (PN #51453)

Nissan GT-R (PN #84069)

Nissan GT-R Motul Autech (PN #51584)

Porsche 911 (PN #51543)

Toyota GR Supra (PN #51622)



The Build RC

Aston Martin DBR9 (PN #rcvp334310075)

Honda NSX Raybrig (PN # rcvp334310171)

This is not a complete list but what I have thus far as I am preparing to begin testing (getting a test bed has been challenging because of COVID) but hopefully this can become something that can be a tool to introduce racing to more using recognizable cars (or car bodies) and hopefully be part of what can help get onroad racing rolling again (while not the singular "silver bullet" as I think no single thing can "revive" onroad racing) and not simply be "another class" in the ever widening sea of classes in onroad.
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Last edited by trackdesigner71; 09-07-2020 at 07:36 PM. Reason: I would be remiss to not give credit to Mantoya and his awesome insight with this concept
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:02 PM
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Bullet connector offers no unfair advantage over a deans. Why's that a rule?

I like the scale body list.
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Old 09-06-2020, 04:42 PM
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It's a cost measure, though that is something that could be revisited as testing goes on.
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Old 09-06-2020, 05:28 PM
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Might want to consider the Gravity USGT Spec 21.5 motor, from my experience they are very evenly matched.
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Old 09-06-2020, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by glennhl View Post
Might want to consider the Gravity USGT Spec 21.5 motor, from my experience they are very evenly matched.
I thought about that one, though the reason behind going with the hobbywing is the availability of the combo which is again a cost control move with the USGT motor running around $80 from the Gravity RC website when the HW motor/ESC combo runs $100
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Old 09-06-2020, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
I thought about that one, though the reason behind going with the hobbywing is the availability of the combo which is again a cost control move with the USGT motor running around $80 from the Gravity RC website when the HW motor/ESC combo runs $100
Looks like good start to me. Appreciate your thoughts and efforts to keep on road alive.
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Old 09-06-2020, 09:16 PM
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I don’t see hopups mentioned. IMO there is no point in setting a low msrp for the chassis if you allow hopups which can easily double the cost of the car at a $260 max entry point. If you are trying to keep costs down, I would specify box stock, with exceptions for bearings and servo saver.
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Old 09-06-2020, 11:50 PM
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While in the other topic some conclue we have too many classes you come with this......

I would say, what you sugest is probably one of the Tamiya cup classes, over here it is. So why not adapt that and extend it to an all brand race.
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Old 09-07-2020, 03:26 AM
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How will you prevent advanced racers to participate in this category?
I'm a debutant, I buy the things specified in the rules, then I'm quite good and after 1 year I want to try another class. There is nothing I can recycle as every is limited AF and quite nothing can be re-used. :-(
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Old 09-07-2020, 04:30 AM
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Actually the motor, battery and ESC can make the transition to 21.5 TC. And this is a work in progress behind the scenes but one thing that is being considered is lap time averaging and performance comparison...i.e. if someone is entered in Beginner Spec GT and their lap times (singular and overall) are at a level that is more in line with the regular touring classes, it will be at the discretion of the race director to exclude that person from the Beginner Spec GT class and transition them to a regular touring class. Obviously the thought of how to address that and sandbagged is something to be considered

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Old 09-07-2020, 05:34 AM
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Just a couple of thoughts:

-there are belt drive chassis that exist at that price point which would allow a better transition up to other classes, although it would make price policing a bit trickier. Many of the shaft drive chassis require modification to achieve FDR useful for other classes, VTA being one of those.

-I've heard of spec 4-tec classes allowing certain upgrades just for durability purposes, although this opens another pandora's box of upgrade parts.

-fixed/minimum FDR not so much as a competitive thing but as one less thing for a new racer to think about, keep them from burning up motors, and also slow the cars down a bit if needed.
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Old 09-07-2020, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by anthonyscardina View Post
Just a couple of thoughts:

-there are belt drive chassis that exist at that price point which would allow a better transition up to other classes, although it would make price policing a bit trickier. Many of the shaft drive chassis require modification to achieve FDR useful for other classes, VTA being one of those.

-I've heard of spec 4-tec classes allowing certain upgrades just for durability purposes, although this opens another pandora's box of upgrade parts.

-fixed/minimum FDR not so much as a competitive thing but as one less thing for a new racer to think about, keep them from burning up motors, and also slow the cars down a bit if needed.
I believe MDs group allows a few upgrades because it is kids learning to drive. The other 4Tec class is in Oshkosh. Brushed only. And only allows 2 pinion options.
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Old 09-07-2020, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by anthonyscardina View Post
Just a couple of thoughts:

-there are belt drive chassis that exist at that price point which would allow a better transition up to other classes, although it would make price policing a bit trickier. Many of the shaft drive chassis require modification to achieve FDR useful for other classes, VTA being one of those.

-I've heard of spec 4-tec classes allowing certain upgrades just for durability purposes, although this opens another pandora's box of upgrade parts.

-fixed/minimum FDR not so much as a competitive thing but as one less thing for a new racer to think about, keep them from burning up motors, and also slow the cars down a bit if needed.
I appreciate your thoughts, Anthony...I did think about the belt cars that would fall within that price range and it does make things a bit trickier with maintaining the cost control and add to that people potentially trying to get around it with cars off eBay and whatnot (hence specifying MSRP). My hope is that by the time those running Beginner Spec GT are at the point to be able to move on to classes like VTA and USGT, they will have at least gained skills behind the wheel that would allow for them to transition to a new chassis and pay it forward by transferring the chassis to another new racer so they can get into Beginner Spec GT and the "circle of life" continues. The idea isn't necessarily to take something like say a Kyosho Fazer MkII and get it to a point where it can run in say USGT or VTA but to have a class where those new to racing can learn and develop and gain experience with those of a similar skill level and then can pass it on if you will. I'm totally aware that frankly Traxxas 4Tecs and Kyosho Fazers and Yokomo SD9s probably won't be able to hang with XRay T4 2020s and Serpent S411s and Awesomatix A800s (even with all the hop-ups and bling)..but if they can hang with other 4Tecs and Carisma M40Ss and that kid (or kid at heart) moves on to the newer hotter chassis and can run in USGT and VTA and Stock TC then Beginner Spec GT has done what it was intended to do
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Old 09-07-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
I don’t see hopups mentioned. IMO there is no point in setting a low msrp for the chassis if you allow hopups which can easily double the cost of the car at a $260 max entry point. If you are trying to keep costs down, I would specify box stock, with exceptions for bearings and servo saver.
You'd think this was clear. But it's not. Though, it might be worth having a specific list of NOT ALLOWED hop-ups.

All of these cars do not have roll bars. They do not have adjustable camber. They do not have carbon/composite/fiberglass shock towers. Those things are very easy to tech for. Ban those upgrades?

Any rule, needs to be enforceable. And enforceable in under 5 seconds.
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Old 09-07-2020, 03:46 PM
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That is a very true point Nerobro and thanks for bringing that up as well. Im going to look into those parts and get back to you about it
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