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Mugen MTC2

Old 04-28-2024, 01:09 PM
  #1756  
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Originally Posted by Quante
Added a few more things to thingiverse:
1 Fuel line cutter.
Remember the upstops, TPU was way too stiff so I went back to silicone fuel lines at the dampers for an upstop. No need to discuss if this works, doesnt work, drives awfully,....
If you want to try it, you can at least decently cut the fuel lines the same and at a set length using this:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6559367

2. Droop measurement circle:
Used this to setup my droop, nice and consistent; measurment to the bottom side of the wheel hex. I found this easier than measuring on the bottom of the arm. This figures should be around the same as the ones used in the setup sheets (for me they are, but theres printer tolerances, car part tolerances,... Use it if you`re interested.
I happen to use blocks of 8mm beneath my chassis, Also made a 10mm version because I know most will have 10mm droop blocks laying around :-)
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6559359

Let me know of any improvements I might be able to make.
Iíve printed off the droop tool, would it be possible for the gauge to have 0.2m increments. Thank you with making this prints public.
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Old 04-28-2024, 02:18 PM
  #1757  
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Originally Posted by matt prigmore
Iíve printed off the droop tool, would it be possible for the gauge to have 0.2m increments. Thank you with making this prints public.
Probably not with the level of accuracy of 3D printing.
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Old 04-28-2024, 05:18 PM
  #1758  
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Originally Posted by matt prigmore
Iíve printed off the droop tool, would it be possible for the gauge to have 0.2m increments. Thank you with making this prints public.
Most standard 3d printers have drivers for the motors that perform increments of .04mm. So you can get close, but not exact.
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Old 04-30-2024, 04:04 AM
  #1759  
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Originally Posted by matt prigmore
Iíve printed off the droop tool, would it be possible for the gauge to have 0.2m increments. Thank you with making this prints public.
Hi Matt,
I could, does cost some work with the text and all but I can draw it in CAD without a problem but as the others already state, I'm afraid it'll be difficult to print it with a decent accuracy using FDM.
I'm also wondering if you can really tune the droop screws to get a 0,2mm increment and really see that its set correctly.

What I mean is, eg when doing it as most do it below the wishbone, visibility is bad, its never gonna be flat to flat, there's always some play in the arm balls.
Maybe some of the others can shed a light on this, can you really solidly set the droop to within 0,2mm using the droop screws?
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Old 04-30-2024, 10:52 AM
  #1760  
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Originally Posted by Quante
Hi Matt,
I could, does cost some work with the text and all but I can draw it in CAD without a problem but as the others already state, I'm afraid it'll be difficult to print it with a decent accuracy using FDM.
I'm also wondering if you can really tune the droop screws to get a 0,2mm increment and really see that its set correctly.

What I mean is, eg when doing it as most do it below the wishbone, visibility is bad, its never gonna be flat to flat, there's always some play in the arm balls.
Maybe some of the others can shed a light on this, can you really solidly set the droop to within 0,2mm using the droop screws?
yes I can. every full turn is .5mm of change. I know I can accurately gauge 1/4 turns which gives a resolution of .125mm. I can some what accurately get 1/8 turn if I really took my time. But general, all these gauges we use are only to establish a reference point. All long as you can repeat the measurement every time, it doesn't matter what number is being displayed as long as you can repeat the measurement. It will workout all in the end once you find the window that works for you.
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Old 04-30-2024, 11:18 AM
  #1761  
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Originally Posted by Mig89
yes I can. every full turn is .5mm of change. I know I can accurately gauge 1/4 turns which gives a resolution of .125mm. I can some what accurately get 1/8 turn if I really took my time. But general, all these gauges we use are only to establish a reference point. All long as you can repeat the measurement every time, it doesn't matter what number is being displayed as long as you can repeat the measurement. It will workout all in the end once you find the window that works for you.
Hmm, sure about that? The pitch of an M3 thread is 0,5mm which means idd the droop screw will effectively be 0,5mm lower after 1 turn. But the droop is measured at the end of the wishbone. The distance from the suspension ball to the droop screw is like 1/4th (just guessing) of the distance from the suspension ball to the end of the suspension.
Would mean 1 turn of the droop screw means 4x0,5mm = 2mm displacement at the end of the wishbone.
Thats why I pose the question 😁.
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Old 04-30-2024, 12:31 PM
  #1762  
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Originally Posted by Quante
Hmm, sure about that? The pitch of an M3 thread is 0,5mm which means idd the droop screw will effectively be 0,5mm lower after 1 turn. But the droop is measured at the end of the wishbone. The distance from the suspension ball to the droop screw is like 1/4th (just guessing) of the distance from the suspension ball to the end of the suspension.
Would mean 1 turn of the droop screw means 4x0,5mm = 2mm displacement at the end of the wishbone.
Thats why I pose the question 😁.
nope it would be without know the overall length of arms. I can sketch the arm geometry out for a visual but the change of the value is going to require knowing factors, like shims under the arm, shims under the hub, effective length of the arms. but regardless, I think you miss understood that you can accurately measure a .2mm change. If can't, that means you're suspension is binding or method isn't repeatable. Repeatable is the most detail. If can consistently get the same result with measuring something, the results will be pointless. even if your tools have a tolerance of .01mm if even set the droop at say 5.4mm then you double check and you get 5.6mm and it's a different value every other time. That will hurt you more than your tool being off by .1mm.

Remember, all these setting are relative do tolerance in manufacturing and human error when measuring.
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Old 04-30-2024, 10:21 PM
  #1763  
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Originally Posted by Mig89
nope it would be without know the overall length of arms. I can sketch the arm geometry out for a visual but the change of the value is going to require knowing factors, like shims under the arm, shims under the hub, effective length of the arms. but regardless, I think you miss understood that you can accurately measure a .2mm change. If can't, that means you're suspension is binding or method isn't repeatable. Repeatable is the most detail. If can consistently get the same result with measuring something, the results will be pointless. even if your tools have a tolerance of .01mm if even set the droop at say 5.4mm then you double check and you get 5.6mm and it's a different value every other time. That will hurt you more than your tool being off by .1mm.

Remember, all these setting are relative do tolerance in manufacturing and human error when measuring.
Ah ok, then I misunderstood what you meant idd and you're correct, its not gonna be an absolute measurement but you can get yourself in a window of you're liking and adjust L/R the same.
I did notice with the droop blocks you can fairly nicely set the droop to just touch and repeatability in the suspension isnt a problem but it requires extremely small adjustments on the droop screws and a very good view on the part you're measuring.
The droopblock I drew up measures on the bottom of the wheel hex, good visibility and because there's a tiny amount of play on the wheelhub's suspension ball you can really eyeball it just not moving.
The view on the visibilty below the suspension arm is a lot worse so seeiing is just touching will be incredibly hard.

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Old 05-01-2024, 10:19 AM
  #1764  
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Originally Posted by Quante
Ah ok, then I misunderstood what you meant idd and you're correct, its not gonna be an absolute measurement but you can get yourself in a window of you're liking and adjust L/R the same.
I did notice with the droop blocks you can fairly nicely set the droop to just touch and repeatability in the suspension isnt a problem but it requires extremely small adjustments on the droop screws and a very good view on the part you're measuring.
The droopblock I drew up measures on the bottom of the wheel hex, good visibility and because there's a tiny amount of play on the wheelhub's suspension ball you can really eyeball it just not moving.
The view on the visibilty below the suspension arm is a lot worse so seeiing is just touching will be incredibly hard.
try my method. I normal go above the value. then slide my gauge under to value I want. I then bring down my arm until I no longer see light shining through or I can a slight resistance. I basically use as a feeler gauge and go off the feel. The screw provides more than enough resolution to accurately set the droop. you can always use a fine pitch screw if you wanted more control.

Just make sure your method is repeatable. thats the key
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Old 05-01-2024, 07:08 PM
  #1765  
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Originally Posted by Quante
Hi Matt,

I'm also wondering if you can really tune the droop screws to get a 0,2mm increment and really see that its set correctly.

can you really solidly set the droop to within 0,2mm using the droop screws?
If you look at most 1/10th touring car droop gauges, almost all of them have 0.2mm increments. It is not hard to make small 1/8 or even 1/16 of a turns for those grub screws and really dial in the specific height. Whether if 0.2mm difference of droop is that noticeable is another story
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Old 05-02-2024, 08:14 AM
  #1766  
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Originally Posted by disaster999
If you look at most 1/10th touring car droop gauges, almost all of them have 0.2mm increments. It is not hard to make small 1/8 or even 1/16 of a turns for those grub screws and really dial in the specific height. Whether if 0.2mm difference of droop is that noticeable is another story
it is noticeable. droop is one the most powerful adjustments you can make. .2mm can be difference of you transferring the weight how you need. Droop also affects your ability to ride bumps. make a ride height change, you should also be changing your droop. Make a roll center, droop needs to be reset. In general, im usually making .2mm changes on race day to make sure the balance is where I want it.
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Old 05-16-2024, 01:55 AM
  #1767  
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Salve, chiedo info.. sapete se per caso mugen farŗ un modello nuovo??
Grazie
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Old 06-02-2024, 04:36 PM
  #1768  
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Hello would like to know what Axon springs will fit the Mugen MTC2?

what is the difference within Axon HLS and SLS? Will they fit?

believe the HLS-ss will not fit since super short?

for progressive that will fit the MTC2R will it be HPS?

Thanks
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Old 06-15-2024, 01:28 AM
  #1769  
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Default Arms under the hubs

Hello all,

just looking on setups to see what people are trying to get more out of the car. I notice timo did good at the ETS and saw on some of his sheets he has tried the arms under the hubs. Assuming to get lower CG similar to the x ray setup and he mentioned in his test it drives easier. Just wondering if anyone on here has tried this yet? I will have a play on Wednesday at my next outdoor open practise but wanted to know if there are anything to watch out for.
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Old 06-15-2024, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dxb430
Hello all,

just looking on setups to see what people are trying to get more out of the car. I notice timo did good at the ETS and saw on some of his sheets he has tried the arms under the hubs. Assuming to get lower CG similar to the x ray setup and he mentioned in his test it drives easier. Just wondering if anyone on here has tried this yet? I will have a play on Wednesday at my next outdoor open practise but wanted to know if there are anything to watch out for.
So did he just flip the hubs over and swap sides?
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