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Reviving electric on road

Old 08-03-2020, 08:27 AM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by fyrstormer View Post
Don't make it about young people being "more into videogames". Young people don't have money to spend on anything, unless they have rich parents anyway. If they have a choice between a $500 smartphone that can do lots of useful and fun things vs. a $500 RC car that can only do one fun thing and zero useful things, they are going to rightly choose the smartphone.

If you want to see young people get into racing, you need to convince everyone to run stock TT-01s with stock brushed motors and NiMH battery packs, or something comparable to that, because that's pretty much the cheapest hobby-grade RC available -- the only one young people can easily afford. And then you have to refuse all requests to increase the specs for the class to avoid cost-creep, even if it means the alpha-racers quit in frustration.
Well you just proved my point, lol. Kids play video games and use social media on their smartphone. Duh! If you haven't looked around, most kids are rocking the latest smartphones.

When you factor in inflation and overall running equipment, it is actually cheaper these days to do RC than when I started in the late 90s. Sorry, my point still stands, there is less interest in "tinkering" hobbies with the instant-gratification generation now. It is just not RC Cars too.
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Old 08-03-2020, 08:44 AM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by mrreet2001 View Post
This tread started off asking about reviving 12th (17.5). I don't disagree that WGTR is a great class for beginners. I just don't see it being the same stepping stone to 17.5 12th as 12GT is.



By the time you buy all the different chassis parts you might as well buy a new kit from my experience. With 12Gt you just need a new motor, new body and maybe new tires.


Do you mean at the same time?
No, I run two classes. 1/12 17.5, and WGTR. Since both my 12 and my WGTR are from CRC. I can use either car as spare parts for the other. Or one spare front suspension can be used on either car. Cuts the cost of, self stocked, tuning and repair parts in half. It has to be the cheapest way to run onroad.

Same esc, same batteries, bearings, motor, suspension, springs, servo. A spare 12 kit could serve as a parts car for both classes.

I don't want to bash 12gt too much. But when I want to run a scale GT body, that's what USGT and WGTR are for. They lost me with excessive rules. Spec gears. Especially the spec Esc, I don't want to run that esc. WGTR has a larger pillow body as well, for absorbing crashes.

I'm not buying the ''video game'' argument either. Ya'll have been tooting that horn since the 80's. If anything, I think the early 90's was the peak of gaming. Now it's just a way to waste time. Nobody dedicates their entire Saturday to gaming. And now gaming costs as much as rc.
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Old 08-03-2020, 09:38 AM
  #153  
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From a very practical point of view, how do you make rc racing more "glam". This will attract newcomers.

Photography is way more expensive and not anyless difficult than rc cars.
Telling your colleagues you are into photography and goes to a studio every weekend gives them a Oooooo. Telling your colleagues you race RC gives them a "why you still play with toys?"

Cycling is no less cheaper and also demands a huge amount of effort.
Telling your colleagues you are in a cycling team gives them a Oooooo. Telling your colleagues you race RC gives them a "why you still play with toys?"

Guitars/drums are as expensive and even more difficult than rc cars but yet Fender probably sold more standards guitars than all the rc brands combined.
Telling your colleagues you are into music and practice with your bandmates gives them a Oooooo. Telling your colleagues you race RC gives them a "why you still play with toys?"

I am of course exaggerating cause many ppl will think whoever do the above are kids but you get the point
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:27 AM
  #154  
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I reread the USGT rules a couple times to make sure I didn't miss anything and I didn't see anything about a spec ESC per se zerodefect. This is straight from the rules off the USVTA site:

Approved ESCs: ANY ESC that is ROAR approved and using ROAR approved “Blinky” spec software
I didn't see anything about using a spec ESC necessarily...as long as the ESC has a "Blinky" mode (and a lot of them these days do if Im not mistaken), you can run any one you want

Personally I do believe that pan car and touring car classes can coexist and both are going to be key for the short and long term health of onroad in the States. Now I do agree that having a thousand different classes is not viable but having 3 or 4 in each that everytrack runs under the same ruleset should be good for fostering growth as there wont be any confusion

Pan
WGT-R
17.5 12th LMP
21.5 GT12
F1
(12th mod could be considered later)

Touring
17.5 TC
21.5 USGT
USVTA (I believe they run 25.5)
(Touring mod could be considered later)
(Beginner Spec Class TBD)

Unify the rules on these classes (God bless ROAR but I haven't seen them stepping up in this aspect and I don't like the prospects at the moment) and that hopefully will foster growth. THe thing that has to be considered is that it is going to require time and patience from the tracks to make something like this work.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:34 AM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
I reread the USGT rules a couple times to make sure I didn't miss anything and I didn't see anything about a spec ESC per se zerodefect. This is straight from the rules off the USVTA site:


I didn't see anything about using a spec ESC necessarily...as long as the ESC has a "Blinky" mode (and a lot of them these days do if Im not mistaken), you can run any one you want

Personally I do believe that pan car and touring car classes can coexist and both are going to be key for the short and long term health of onroad in the States. Now I do agree that having a thousand different classes is not viable but having 3 or 4 in each that everytrack runs under the same ruleset should be good for fostering growth as there wont be any confusion

Pan
WGT-R
17.5 12th LMP
21.5 GT12
F1
(12th mod could be considered later)

Touring
17.5 TC
21.5 USGT
USVTA (I believe they run 25.5)
(Touring mod could be considered later)
(Beginner Spec Class TBD)

Unify the rules on these classes (God bless ROAR but I haven't seen them stepping up in this aspect and I don't like the prospects at the moment) and that hopefully will foster growth. THe thing that has to be considered is that it is going to require time and patience from the tracks to make something like this work.
He is saying there is a spec ESC in 12GT. I have seen spec motors but never a spec ESC. Not in 12Gt anyway.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:36 AM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
Nobody dedicates their entire Saturday to gaming.
You should meet some my friends and co workers.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:39 AM
  #157  
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It's most likely the local losers club. Cry waaa, until everyone is running the same thing, then they still lose, and quit. Funny how they never show up early for the 3 hour practice....

Some clubs forced a Turnigy motor and esc for GT12. It saved costs, until they started nuking. Three cheap esc's cost more than one good one. Some are running Reedy ASC297 with open esc. Some tracks it's anything goes 21.5, no GTP bodies.

The local yokel rules need to stop. This fall, I'm running the national rules for any class. RD will have to officially DQ me if he doesn't like it.
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Old 08-03-2020, 10:51 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
The local yokel rules need to stop.
I agree! Thats the point I was trying to make earlier about 12GT. It sounds like in Ohio there are 3 sets of rules as it is.
-The Gate uses CanAm
-QueenCIty in Cincy go with the spec zero timing Reedy / some track star motor (we follow those rules when we have GT12 in Toledo),
- Columbus, they even have a spec ECS.

Throw in Florida's rules and those guys who are trying to make a 2s GT12. I don't see 12GT talking off if no one can agree on specs. I know you are going to have places like Mansfield running assorts of weird custom classes, but it would be nice if those wanting a standard had a standard. Maybe Rob could do with 12Gt, what he did with F1, USGT and USVTA.
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:13 AM
  #159  
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Yeah, the Ohio mess is really keeping GT down. At the same time, we have more quality carpet tracks than anywhere else.

Well the Mansfield track is brand new. So you're going to have some grace until more people know about it. They're switching Txp's this winter, but they're only $25.

Don't forget to try Access Hobbies, Springfield. And EN Hobbies, Cbus.

Last edited by Zerodefect; 08-03-2020 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:24 AM
  #160  
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THat was partly my point with my last post. There needs to be some unification of rules nationwide if there is going to be any growth. If the national spec is 1s 21.5 motor then whatever it takes to get that as the national standard needs to be done. I don't mind if there isn't necessarily a single spec motor for most of these classes but having a single ruleset will reduce the confusion and infighting. The only class I would want to see with a unified spec motor (outside of TCS) is the Beginner Stock Spec class but with that would come other controls to address the bulk purchasing that seems to take place in most spec classes because of folks with fat wallets (or groups pooling their fat wallets together) to allow for those new to onroad to come in at a reasonable enough price point and the focus can be on driving and fun competition because RC at the end of the day should be about fun much like any other hobby
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Old 08-03-2020, 11:45 AM
  #161  
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The Florida GT12 is 1 cell- Roar legal 21.5,blinky esc, foam tires (mostly run outdoors),GT bodies, any 1/12th chassis. There is no spec gear ratios or esc's. They are also the snowbirds rules. We have been running this class and it's growing every race. For my latest report we have three new Serpent 1/12ths for this weekends race.
As for the whiners about tire truing if you need to true your tires someone down here is always ready to help- Just ask! This argument about classes and help is getting old.Getting people interested in R/C . Have you been to a local hoby shop and see what people have been spending money on- RTR . And here it then going drag racing. The money spent on Drag Racing is a drop in the bucket for on road. Since there are no rules for spending money on what you can do to your drag cars? I've seen stuck you'll never seen done to a serpent drag car by one guy I know. My hobby is racing R/C on-road cars. You need to promote what you race locally and get more racers that way. If no one knows what you are doing and when you are doing it --- it will never grow.
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:18 PM
  #162  
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Originally Posted by mrreet2001 View Post
You should meet some my friends and co workers.
Haha, same!!
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Old 08-03-2020, 12:55 PM
  #163  
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My local track is located on a public park so we get our fair share of passersbys spectating and inquiring how to get started in the hobby. I default to telling them to go to amain and piecing together a 21.5 touring car package as no hobby shops stock onroad in my area. People get confused and intimidated. In my experience it's a answer to a question that leads to more questions. Such as "Is there anything RTR?". Maybe my response is wrong and I should tell them to get a tt02 and race novice?

I have been in the hobby for a year now and was lucky enough to have someone guide me through the intimidating task of getting up and running in on road. Without a clear starting point for new people the interest will fade away quickly.

My local club has started racing euro truck and this is a great way for new people to experience the hobby. The issue is a euro truck doesn't look all that appealing to newcomers. I am not the biggest advocate for adding new classes as our race days are already plenty long but what would benefit this hobby is a spec tt02 class. This would be the most concise response to give people that are interested in the hobby in my opinion.
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Old 08-03-2020, 01:21 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
I'm not buying the ''video game'' argument either. Ya'll have been tooting that horn since the 80's. If anything, I think the early 90's was the peak of gaming. Now it's just a way to waste time. Nobody dedicates their entire Saturday to gaming. And now gaming costs as much as rc.
I've been racing off and on for 30 years. This past Saturday, I was at my local track racing. I have 4 teenage boys - they were all at home playing video games. All 4 of them have their own RC cars. I offer to take them racing every year, and every year they decline.

This past Saturday, there was a peak of 5.4 million people actively playing Steam games on PC, another 6.1 million playing Fortnite, and another 3.5 million playing Minecraft. This does not include console gamers (Playstation/Xbox/Nintendo).

Looking at LiveRC, the most number of active racers for an entire month over the last 3 years was 16,908. Lets double that for tracks not using LiveRC - so the peak over the last 3 years was roughly 33,800 racers, over an entire month. Compared to 15+ million PC gamers this past Saturday alone.

Have you ever seen an arena/stadium filled with people watching RC racing? This is how popular gaming is...


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Old 08-03-2020, 05:08 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
Everyone that just suggested a new beginner class,...........YOU are the problem with on road RC.

There already are well established classes that work well at the club level. Making up new classes, and jerking around with current classes, needlessly increases the cost of racing. To the point where some of us run last years spec, and thumb our nose at the RD. This isn't that expensive. Until you ''new class'' jerks kill current classes and make people buy new cars. Those new classes will last a year tops, then a new newb or sportsman class starts. Rinse repeat.

There's too many classes. Way too many classes.

Here's what I suggest:
1. WGTR. The beginner racer and sportsman class. Spec motor maybe, but open 17.5 makes more sense. The 12GT guys need to quit playing with themselves and join this class. This might be the most fun on carpet.

2. USGT. Adjust the rules a little so that TC and VTA guys only need to make a few changes. Allow people to break the rules 3 times, so that guys who show up with the wrong body or motor still get to play. This class needs a grace period. Every track seems to be running different rules. If the backmarkers have the wrong motor, tires, battery, don't freak out on them. They're backmarkers, it doesn't matter.

3. 1/12th 17.5. You want to bring back the glory days, this is the class to do it in. Ya'll should jump into this. The failure of this class is directly proportional to the dying of on road rc. It's more than a coincidence. Build this class, and they will come.

4. Euro truck. Box stock. No entry fee's. That's right, a free class. Deal with it, newbs always need a gimmick.

That's it.
Good point of the grace period esp for newcomers.

I agree with free euro truck too
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