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Old 03-23-2006, 05:31 AM   #16
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don't bother with scales. i have some and find it harder than it is worth to set up a car with them. best way is to set it up, then use the pins if you wish. i don't bother with pins personally, i just put car flat on board and lift up rear with a 1.5mm hex driver, do the same for the rear and check which tyre lifts first, then adjust out tweak accordingly with either shock collars or a very very very slight loosening/tightening of the droop screws (but mainly use the collars only).

also if you run foams these will chage diamaters.

i do this test after i set ride height and droop to as close as perfect as possible.

honestly, if you crash once, the car will be all of anyway, so don't procrastinate too much in the pits. just set it up like above, (checking tweak with the lift method) and do as many laps as possible.
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Old 03-23-2006, 06:01 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VenomWorldOrder
don't bother with scales. i have some and find it harder than it is worth to set up a car with them. best way is to set it up, then use the pins if you wish. i don't bother with pins personally, i just put car flat on board and lift up rear with a 1.5mm hex driver, do the same for the rear and check which tyre lifts first, then adjust out tweak accordingly with either shock collars or a very very very slight loosening/tightening of the droop screws (but mainly use the collars only).

also if you run foams these will change diameters.

i do this test after i set ride height and droop to as close as perfect as possible.

honestly, if you crash once, the car will be all of anyway, so don't procrastinate too much in the pits. just set it up like above, (checking tweak with the lift method) and do as many laps as possible.
Remember there is a difference between elevated tweak and driving or static tweak.
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Old 03-23-2006, 03:02 PM   #18
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what would be the effects of adding more droop in front? vice versa?
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Old 03-23-2006, 03:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberman
what would be the effects of adding more droop in front? vice versa?
It would allow the front shocks to extend out more, and the rear shocks to compress more. Visa-Versa going the other way.
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Old 03-23-2006, 04:28 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomberman
what would be the effects of adding more droop in front? vice versa?
Adding droop to one end will usually allow more weight to transfer to the opposite end. More droop in the front will allow more weight to transfer to the back under acceleration. Usually this will let the rear end hook up more coming out of the corners. Also more droop in the dear will allow more weight to transfer to the front. It also limits the amount of side to side weight transfer. Less droop all around will give less roll and less weight transfer.
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Old 03-23-2006, 04:35 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Kerr
Less droop all around will give less roll and less weight transfer.
This also makes the car react faster, and will induce traction roll overs on high bite tracks.
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Old 03-24-2006, 06:56 AM   #22
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Only one last thing to add. In medium to high grip situations, any difference between the front and rear droop settings will usually also have an effect on the grip balance of the car in high speed sweepers.

With more droop in the front, than in the rear, the car will shift more weight/grip to the rear tires in the sweeper and vice versa.
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Old 03-24-2006, 08:52 AM   #23
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officemax and office depot have the scales for 26 buck a peice! not a bad price
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Old 03-25-2006, 09:25 AM   #24
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Ok running TC oval what should the weight balance be RF/LR LF/RR?
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Old 03-25-2006, 10:42 AM   #25
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Heres a neat little way to balance your chassis. I use two of the trinity no brainer body post locaters. I just set up the car on my tweak board with one no brainer tip on each end of the car resting in the balancing holes.If your using two different batteries IE IB3800's and you also use 3300's then the weight and balance wont be the same between the two. And when adding balast weight it's important to keep the weight as low as possible.
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Old 03-25-2006, 10:50 AM   #26
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Using scales only measures sprung weight not unsprung weight.
Tweak can throw off a scale reading and give you a inacurate unsprung balance when you have unsprung balance weight resting exactly on the centerline of the chassis you can more precisely balance the chassis and this balance will not change with ride height adjustments.
just an example rest a car on all four scales and balance it with balast weights then just take the left or right rear shock and move the ride height adjusting collar up or down it and watch whet happens to your supposidly balanced chassis it will seem unbalanced.
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Old 03-25-2006, 04:13 PM   #27
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Scales measure corner weights. Add them all together and you get the total weight of the vehicle (sprung and unsprung). Add the left sides and you get left side total, same with right.

The idea for on road cars is to get equal corner weights. If you feel it is necessary you can add weight to make the left weigh the same as right, that is not necassary but it is nice. Most of us won't notice the difference but we will notice corner weights not being equal. That is how a balance beam works, equal corner weights.

Equal corner weights is having the left front and right rear equal the right front and left rear.

None of this has anything to do with sprung and unsprung weight, if that was true we wouldn't need the battery in the car to do all this, off course that is not true.
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Old 03-25-2006, 04:34 PM   #28
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You can balance a chassis with scales, here is how to do it:

1) Make sure your chassis is straight and has no twist (tweak) to it, camber and toe needs to be set evenly
2) Put setup wheels on the car, dbl check that they are machined correctly to same diameter
3) Set car to 5mm ride height (not critical but its the number I use)
4) Tighten droop screws until they touch at 5mm rideheight
5) Tighten springs down so the car is always sitting on the droop screws with some tension
6) Use a droop guage to make sure the droop is dead even on all 4 corners
7) Put the car on the scales (scales need to be on a level surface) the numbers you will see are the actual weights of each of the corners without the springs coming into affect

This method is similar to the way full scale race teams set chassis weight
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Old 03-26-2006, 01:33 AM   #29
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okay, after reading the thread and some other old thread, here is my understanding.

Bascailly, there are two ways to balance a chassis, one is with 4 scales, and the other way is to use the hudy tool or something similar under the middle of the chassis.

I believe both of the above way works but they achieve different things.

First with the hudy tool way, I believe this is how you distribute the weight of the chassis evenly left and right. In order for the chassis to be balanced perfectly on the hudy tool, the Center of gravity of the chassis must be right in the middle or else the chassis would fall on either left or right side. This way of balancing have nothing to do with the suspension and is simply balancing the weight distribution.

Now with the 4 scale ways, this is how you balance the car based on corner weights, which means how much weight the car is putting on each wheel. This is the part where you adjust your suspension until the corner weights are equal. I believe this is not a perfect way to truly balance a chassis. Even though people would argue that if the corner weights are all the same on all 4 wheels then the chassis must be balanced. However I believe that even if you have an unbalanced chassis to start with (one side heavier then the other), you could still adjust the suspension to compensate and achieve same corner weights on all 4 wheels. The car might have perfect equal corner weights when you put it on the scale sitting there. However, when you are running the car, weight transfer from the left to right, right to left, front to back etc..........and I beleive this is where there would be problems if you have a chassis that is one side heavier then the others. One side would transfer more weight to the other side and cause handling issues.

That's why I believe that BEFORE you balance your car on 4 scales, you should make sure your weight distribution of the chassis is balanced first. Then you could use the 4 scale to make sure your suspension is setup correctly to achieve equal corner weights on all 4 wheels.

I have no scientific prove of what i said above, it's just strictly what I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 03-26-2006, 09:04 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookinco
okay, after reading the thread and some other old thread, here is my understanding.

Bascailly, there are two ways to balance a chassis, one is with 4 scales, and the other way is to use the hudy tool or something similar under the middle of the chassis.

I believe both of the above way works but they achieve different things.

First with the hudy tool way, I believe this is how you distribute the weight of the chassis evenly left and right. In order for the chassis to be balanced perfectly on the hudy tool, the Center of gravity of the chassis must be right in the middle or else the chassis would fall on either left or right side. This way of balancing have nothing to do with the suspension and is simply balancing the weight distribution.

Now with the 4 scale ways, this is how you balance the car based on corner weights, which means how much weight the car is putting on each wheel. This is the part where you adjust your suspension until the corner weights are equal. I believe this is not a perfect way to truly balance a chassis. Even though people would argue that if the corner weights are all the same on all 4 wheels then the chassis must be balanced. However I believe that even if you have an unbalanced chassis to start with (one side heavier then the other), you could still adjust the suspension to compensate and achieve same corner weights on all 4 wheels. The car might have perfect equal corner weights when you put it on the scale sitting there. However, when you are running the car, weight transfer from the left to right, right to left, front to back etc..........and I beleive this is where there would be problems if you have a chassis that is one side heavier then the others. One side would transfer more weight to the other side and cause handling issues.

That's why I believe that BEFORE you balance your car on 4 scales, you should make sure your weight distribution of the chassis is balanced first. Then you could use the 4 scale to make sure your suspension is setup correctly to achieve equal corner weights on all 4 wheels.

I have no scientific prove of what i said above, it's just strictly what I believe. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I would have to say you hit the nail right on the head.....
I have many years expierience in setting up full size(pro stocks or late models depending on where your from) oval cars and have been to many many seminars and schools on chassis and suspension setups and what I have found is there are a lot of theories that carry over to RC cars whether it be oval or road course.

Now yes in full size cars you for the most part cant balance your unsprung weight perfectly but most chassis builders do design them so with all the running gear installed to have as much unsprung weight in the centerline of the chassis as possible. Then you can adjust your front, rear, left, right and diag weight percentages(cross) using either coil over adjusters or jacking bolts along with moving balast around.

Last edited by Jmccormick; 03-26-2006 at 09:20 AM.
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