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Gt12 USA Spec

Old 12-09-2021, 05:42 PM
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For carpet fine ..but for asphalt not ..if you want to run a spec class run legends or euro trucks.
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Old 12-09-2021, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bartolo Racing
For carpet fine ..but for asphalt not ..if you want to run a spec class run legends or euro trucks.
That goes both ways.. if you want options run 17.5 or 13.5. just curious if TC, wgt or F1 run rubber tires in the parking lot?
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Old 12-09-2021, 07:50 PM
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Funny but the rubber tires for WGT-R , TC and F1 is a different rubber. Speaking of rubber Yokomo came out with a different rubber for 1/12th .Spec motors or open motors Ya'll make a bigger deal about motors. There is no two identical spec motors. And open motors - If you want to spend a bunch of money on a motor go right ahead. I don't buy the top of the line motors and I am very competitive in every class I race. If you want to spend the time on your motors you can make them better! You won't find a spec motor or gearing here in Florida in any class .As for bodies you want to scrap them be my guest- go right ahead. Why don't you see all this stuff in off road? If onroad is dying where you race its alive down here. Going in circles down here is dead.
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Old 12-10-2021, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Racermac73
That goes both ways.. if you want options run 17.5 or 13.5. just curious if TC, wgt or F1 run rubber tires in the parking lot?
Have you tried them on asphalt?
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bartolo Racing
For carpet fine ..but for asphalt not ..if you want to run a spec class run legends or euro trucks.
Yep. Instead of running the class they want to run they should run completely different class just because someone in Florida doesn't like it.
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by BullFrog
Funny but the rubber tires for WGT-R , TC and F1 is a different rubber.
Last I knew you guys thought that the CRC rubber for WGTR / F1 was crap on asphalt as well and everyone should switch to foam in those classes.

Originally Posted by BullFrog
If onroad is dying where you race its alive down here. Going in circles down here is dead.
Yet for some asinine reason you want to kill the classes that ARE doing well here.
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:34 AM
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A couple of things from observation. No one here can claim this class as it is a evolution (of the Euro rules) in the US and not a invention. Don't get bent out of shape about that. Regions have specific wants and needs. The Great Lakes became the center of 1/12 scale over 40 years ago (the Indoor Champs was exclusively 1/12 originally) but it wasn't invented there either. As a Great Lakes racer, Florida spec was tried and because it was just a slower different body class it died very quickly. The rubber tire version has already far outlived it here. Will it last, who knows? Cleveland was a interesting race for that class but it wasn't that many years ago there were 60 F1 cars there so we will see. The Gate spec, which was the rule set run there has even evolved as we at the Gate see shortcomings and possible benefits along the way. It is our biggest class and has seen racers add 1/12 17.5 to their program as a plus to the track. The Great Lakes area is almost exclusively carpet racing our weather isn't kind to the outdoor tracks and they suffer short seasons because of that. That drives the indoors exclusively racing. As such the SJT tires make more sense for the class here. Spec motors are also a local thing and we picked the USGT spec after a lot of testing and polling of our racers. It is a solid motor, fairly consistent, inexpensive and rebuildable. Our choice and other Great Lakes tracks use it but some spec something different. We tried fixed gearing but cars came along that our spec didn't fit, we saw small differences in performance of motors and after a discussion with Paul we switched to open gearing. Scott Jakes has communication lines with several of us at the Gate and that helped drive the class development. We like what we have right now (didn't like Florida spec) and there may be more changes to coma as we further develop and evolve it for our region.
Have fun with it what ever the rule set and help it grow with constructive conversation.
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:19 AM
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Going back to the question I asked, how many of the people here complaining about Florida clubs running foams in GT12 run SJT rubber tires outside on asphalt? If any, how well do they work on asphalt and how long do they last?
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:23 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by biz77
The GT12 class was developed in Britain to be a low-cost alternative to LMP 1/12th scale. The cars used (see Schumacher Atom) are more simple in design than a standard LMP 1/12th scale. They rely on relatively skinny rear tires at 26mm width and an overall maximum car width of 165mm. Cars are also much heavier at a required minimum of 950 grams. Despite the skinny rear tires, their drivers are somehow able to pilot 1s 13.5 powerplants around tracks with less traction than the black carpet most run on here in the States. Obviously, they use GT bodies.
Yes the GT12 class here in the UK was drawn up as a low cost 1/12th scale class. Schumacher (Supastox) and Mardave produced the first cars to the chassis rules, which are more restrictive than what I'll call the full LMP 12th class. Zen Racing also developed a car which was competitive.

The first generation of UK GT12 used diffs with a nyloc nut to secure the rear wheels, with much narrower tyres than LMP 12th. The tyre compound choice was free, so softer rears on "green" carpet then gradually harder as grip built up. We also have some additives which are designed for lower grip carpet.

The class really took off. Clubs found them easier to run as cheaper and less wide than most other classes. Plus regional series were organised with good entries in some areas.

I still have my original Schumacher Supastox car which was great fun to race at clubs and across my region. GT shells were one of the attractions. The rules were then changed to allow 3 hole mount diffs and rear tyres, and the chassis development from all three manufacturers within the rules really took my. That put the original cars at a real disadvantage.

The class still has some good numbers and followers in the UK. There was a Worlds held at Milton Keynes (the same shopping centre as the 2020 IFMAR 1/12th LMP worlds). There is also a strong following in Italy, and a Euros for the class was held there this year.

I've seen Snowbirds GT12 run, with full LMP chassis under GT shells. Unfortunately I can't make the Birds for a second year. If I can make one of the larger US races later in 2022 or the 2023 Birds then one of the GT12 classes with a CRC car looks like an option. I've got a local club where I could shakedown what would be a new car for me (which is ironically more practice than I've had for some other classes!!)



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Old 12-10-2021, 07:31 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by vafactor
Some guys enjoy the simplicity of running rubber tires, but others (like me) much prefer the spec foams. So IMO choosing the tire rule should probably be left to what each club prefers. Either way the class can be big fun so long as everybody is on the same tires. But what I’ve seen hurt the class most is allowing open motors. Nothing will discourage the participants more in a class that’s supposed to fun and affordable than some guy showing up with the latest “must have” $175 “team spec” hot motor. And then a few weeks later, somebody else turns up with as much or even more power. A couple of years ago when our club(s) first started running GT12 and spec foam tires, everybody also ran the same spec motor. The class quickly took hold and grew nicely. But as soon as we strayed from the spec motor thing, costs went way up and participation has been steadily shrinking. GT12 should never be a test to see who’s willing to spend the most money. It should be a fun and affordable class where it’s the racer’s driving and not his budget that determines his/her level of success.
I don't remember gt12 starting with a spec motor at Soda, it's always been open motor, unless you're talking about another location. My memory is kind of trash too so...
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Old 12-10-2021, 08:01 AM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by HenryC
Going back to the question I asked, how many of the people here complaining about Florida clubs running foams in GT12 run SJT rubber tires outside on asphalt? If any, how well do they work on asphalt and how long do they last?
Personally I think it's irrelevant, foam tires outside and rubber tires on carpet with uniform rules is fine. Foams last outside and you run them big. If you want to be fast with foams on carpet then they are 1 run tires. Someone will say I run the same set on carpet all day with no problem, that's still 30-40 dollars a day. With entry fee and normal upkeep it's 75-80 to go race per day in a economical class.. 125-150 if you plan on fresh tires. That's just next level stupid and why the hobby is dying a ugly death.
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Old 12-10-2021, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by HenryC
Going back to the question I asked, how many of the people here complaining about Florida clubs running foams in GT12 run SJT rubber tires outside on asphalt? If any, how well do they work on asphalt and how long do they last?
I don't really see where anyone is telling Florida they shouldn't run foams. All I am hearing is that Florida is telling the Great lakes region not to run a program that works because they "invented" the class and everyone should run it just like FL.
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Old 12-10-2021, 04:23 PM
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Listen to yourselves! It's arguing like this that clearly tells me why classes don't last in this country. Instead of digging your heels in and acting like,"well we do it this way and gosh darning, we aren't changing..." (which reminds me of some churches I've been to), your attitude, and this goes for all sides here, should be, "well I see that you came up with this idea, and maybe we can't do thus and so, we certainly could use thus and so, and maybe we can work together to find a common ground so this can grow all over the country..." we aren't enemies in this hobby. There doesn't need to be a Florida Spec, a Great Lakes Spec, a Las Vegas Spec...at that rate, there will be NO spec because there will be NO CLASS except for the big races like the US Indoor Champs, or the Snowbirds and maybe as a demo class at national championships, and I doubt anyone in here wants that.
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Old 12-10-2021, 05:20 PM
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I put it this way. WE came up with the class and it took off. You want to run Rubber on carpet that's fine. But not everyone gets to run rubber on carpet all the time. Just as here we have one carpet track and every other track is out doors. We've run spec motors and spec gear ratios before and it did not work for us. Also we don't have a problem with the scraping of the bodies down here. Changing the weight it's simple as 1/12th should all weight the ROAR min.730 grams. When you outlaw tire truing and want to DQ someone at a race for doing that is foolish. It's their money. The same for motors we again don't have that problem here people buy what they want. again it's their money. We have helped many a driver with there set-ups gear ratios all the time. All anyone has to do is ask us ! I don't usually by the top of the line motor . I fix mine up and it is very simple to do. I have the cheap motor machine to do it. There is more I could do but I don't do it. Each batch of motors from anyone is always different from the last batch. You want to go fast try your set-up and your driving .
Look if you guys want to keep things growing the rules need to be as simple as possible to keep things going. I'm glad everyone is having fun with the class if you aren't then it's not for you. If you think this class is to slow go to the faster 1/12th classes.
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Old 12-10-2021, 07:07 PM
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