Go Back  R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road
First disappointing experience >

First disappointing experience

Like Tree3Likes
  • 1 Post By rc_square24
  • 1 Post By Airwave
  • 1 Post By bshookup

First disappointing experience

Old 04-05-2020, 11:18 PM
  #1  
Tech Initiate
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 24
Default First disappointing experience

After years off-road, I decided to give on-road a try. I assembled a 3racing advance S + a Tamiya M-05 and went to local track, RCI V2 in Shanghai.
The tracks is very nice and equipped with black carpet.
I started to drive the advance with box tires (no prep) and the grip was very low, both for traction and corner.
Then I purchased new tires, Rush 32, and tried without any prep. Result was very similar, no grip, just drift. But the Rush collected everything on the track, compared to the stock tires...
After each run, I had to clean the Rush (with break cleaner) to rediscover the tire surface with zero wear, shiny as new.

In parallel, the M-05 was running like a charm with stock grooves tires (no prep) and high grip.
Back home, I read as much as I can, and discover that new tires has to be sand; remove the central flash; clean and "sauce".

Is it really the way to do on-road ? I realize now that people around me in the pit spent long time to clean and "sauce" the tires, for short time on track...
Did I miss something ?
I'm a little lost now, not sure which tires to purchase; which sauce;...
I do not want to race; not want the TC body; just some fun with GT body (and less "aero grip").

Thanks in advance for your advises and any potential "plug and play" solution to just have fun on track.
Chris916 is offline  
Old 04-05-2020, 11:28 PM
  #2  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
 
gigaplex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 3,102
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Chris916 View Post
After years off-road, I decided to give on-road a try. I assembled a 3racing advance S + a Tamiya M-05 and went to local track, RCI V2 in Shanghai.
The tracks is very nice and equipped with black carpet.
I started to drive the advance with box tires (no prep) and the grip was very low, both for traction and corner.
Then I purchased new tires, Rush 32, and tried without any prep. Result was very similar, no grip, just drift. But the Rush collected everything on the track, compared to the stock tires...
After each run, I had to clean the Rush (with break cleaner) to rediscover the tire surface with zero wear, shiny as new.

In parallel, the M-05 was running like a charm with stock grooves tires (no prep) and high grip.
Back home, I read as much as I can, and discover that new tires has to be sand; remove the central flash; clean and "sauce".

Is it really the way to do on-road ? I realize now that people around me in the pit spent long time to clean and "sauce" the tires, for short time on track...
Did I miss something ?
I'm a little lost now, not sure which tires to purchase; which sauce;...
I do not want to race; not want the TC body; just some fun with GT body (and less "aero grip").

Thanks in advance for your advises and any potential "plug and play" solution to just have fun on track.
Tyre prep is important. Ask your locals what works best on your track.
gigaplex is online now  
Old 04-06-2020, 12:53 AM
  #3  
Tech Initiate
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 24
Default

Thanks, Does it mean all the grip is coming from the sauce for Sorex; Rush; Sweep;... tires ?
Chris916 is offline  
Old 04-06-2020, 02:53 AM
  #4  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (2)
 
gigaplex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 3,102
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Chris916 View Post
Thanks, Does it mean all the grip is coming from the sauce for Sorex; Rush; Sweep;... tires ?
That depends a lot on the type of surface you run on and the type of tyres you use. I run on asphalt, and if we don't prep our tyres the grip will be lacking. Sometimes prep is as simple as cleaning the tyres beforehand (we us brake cleaner) and using tyre warmers.

Your locals will know what works on your track.
gigaplex is online now  
Old 04-06-2020, 03:32 AM
  #5  
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (9)
 
rc_square24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 874
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

I run on ETS black carpet with Sweep 28s, sauced with Trinity Sticky Fingers, no warming. As posted the locals will recommend whats best.
Chris916 likes this.
rc_square24 is offline  
Old 04-06-2020, 06:45 AM
  #6  
Tech Master
 
moparSRT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Tampa Bay FL
Posts: 1,337
Default

If ur just messing around, going with a softer compound will give you more traction but shorter life.
moparSRT is offline  
Old 04-06-2020, 01:01 PM
  #7  
Tech Master
iTrader: (18)
 
bshookup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 1,587
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

I too had to learn the hard way that cleaning and saucing tires even just to practice on carpet is necessary. I used to only run on asphalt, and a four wheel drive touring car will usually be fun to drive on an unprepped parking lot or prepped race track without any tire prep. Tire prep, just makes it better. For carpet, I've found that tire cleaning and saucing is usually needed just to get the car to go around the track consistently. There may be a magic plug and play tire out there such as what works with your M-05, but I'm unaware of it. I don't think tire prep has to take you too long or be too complicated. Just ask the track owner and a couple drivers at the track who you see are getting around the track consistently what they use to clean and sauce their tires with, and do something similar. It is usually best for a track if everyone uses the same tire sauce. Again, it doesn't have to be too complicated. Just clean the tires and put sauce on them. People who are serious about racing will pay close attention to how long they sauce their tires, because dry time will affect performance, but for just having fun at the track, I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's great that you have two cars, so you can run your Advance, clean and sauce your tires, then run your M-05 while your tires are drying, run your Advance, and repeat.

I imagine that your Rush 32 tires are just fine, but ask the track owner and other racers what they are running. At some places, the fast racers will give away their old tires to newer drivers when their tires aren't fast enough to win races, but are still great for practicing. Sanding and/or cutting off the center bead is important for competitive racing, but if you don't want to take the trouble to do that, your tires will likely break in with a few runs and you will see that bead slowly go away.

I remember going to a carpet track years ago just to have some fun. I had some old tires that a fast racer had given me, so I knew they were the right tires, and I had just rebuilt my car with a setup that the fast racer had won a race with a few weeks before. I put my car on the track, and it was pretty horrible. So, I thought that his setup just wasn't right for me, so I went to the pit and changed the setup to give me more rear grip. The car was even worse! So, I went and made a different setup change and randomly decided to clean and sauce the tires. The next run the car was amazing. I thought I had just found the magic setup. So, I went back to the pit and put in a new battery and drove the car on the track again, and the car was garbage. That is how I learned that it was the tire prep that made the car work, not the setup. The next week, I brought my friend, who shall remain nameless, to the track. He also had a ton of asphalt experience and setup knowledge but not much carpet experience. I told him about my experience with tire prep, but he didn't believe me. He struggled with his car for six battery packs, making setup changes before each run before he FINALLY listened to me and cleaned and sauced his tires. Low and behold, his car then worked. I still remind him of this every now and then.

Like has been mentioned several times already, talk to the people in your local RC community, and they will help get you going. Then, you will become the expert, and you can help the next off roader who comes in to give on road a try. Carpet on road just has a couple different things to figure out than off road, but you are rewarded by a ton of fun that is completely different from off road.
bshookup is offline  
Old 04-06-2020, 02:06 PM
  #8  
Tech Master
iTrader: (9)
 
IndyRC_Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 1,937
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

While carpet racing usually provides better grip than other surfaces, it still comes down to having the right tires. As others have stated, it is best to ask racers at your local facility for advice on which is the best compound tires to use. They should also be able to provide you with any tire prep & cleaning suggestions that you might need. Without knowing more information about how you are running your vehicles, it would be hard to give specific advice. Also some classes of racing require specific brand and/or type of tires.

As far as having to clean the tires, that is not that unusual depending on track conditions and how well your car was handling. Just like in real racing, carpet tracks have dirt, debris, and worn rubber that can accumulate around the racing surface. Often times it can be difficult to see this dirt on the black carpet. Rubber r/c tires will pick this up just like in real racing when cars drive through the marbles. Again it is a good idea to talk with local racers how to handle this issue if it is excessive at your facility. There are several threads here on RCTECH.net that discuss ways to clean 1/10 tires, some of which use inexpensive cleaning supplies found in most large hardware stores such as Home Depot & Lowes (not sure what equivalent is in China).

As to why your Tamiya M-05 treaded tires worked better, I will assume you were running the stock brushed motor. If that is the case, the speed of the motor and the nature of being a FWD/2WD vehicle made it slower and easier to control. Typically Front Wheel Drive vehicles are easier to drive.

Lastly as to why people sand or grind off the mold seam/flashing usually comes down to consistency. A little mold seam line on a tire usually doesn't need to be removed and will wear off during practice or the first couple of heat races. Unless there is especially bad quality control from the manufacturer or it is a very large seam/flashing, it usually isn't something to worry about.

In closing, the best thing to do is ask multiple people why they are doing something in this hobby. Most people are happy to share their opinions and help out.
IndyRC_Racer is offline  
Old 04-06-2020, 07:04 PM
  #9  
Tech Initiate
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 24
Default

Thanks to all for the replies and experience sharing, really appreciated.
It all makes sense and explains a lot.

Just for information, the M-05 is equipped with 17.5T brushless, it is slow but fast enough to feel the grip and touch the typical understeer limit of FWD.
I have now a battle plan and ideas for next Sunday:

- Sand the shiny Rush 32
- Use Wurth brake cleaner
- Apply "Magic type" tire traction liquid (Red)
- Use my best Chinese language to discuss with pit colleagues
Chris916 is offline  
Old 04-07-2020, 03:12 AM
  #10  
Tech Master
iTrader: (1)
 
Airwave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,406
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by Chris916 View Post
Thanks, Does it mean all the grip is coming from the sauce for Sorex; Rush; Sweep;... tires ?
That's a common thinking all around the world, but there are some tyres that can work without tyre prep. It directly depends on the track itself and on the rubber quality. If you don't have tyre prep, you need a tyre with more natural rubber. For instance, in my club we are only using raspberry syrup with water to prep the track, and nothing on tyres. We are using Hudy 36A and they are working very well, but I can already tell you that we have tested other brands and most of them are designed to work with tyre sauce...

From my experience on rubber tyres also, you should never use brake cleaner on rubber as it dry the surface. If you use tyre sauce, use it to clean the tyre before. If you run clean, just use a micro-fiber cloth to remove the dust.
It is possible that if you are running on a heavily prep track (especially because of nitro and heavy usage of tyre sauce), you won't be able to run clean.

On most carpets, Volante CP28 are cleary usable without any prep but quite nobody is running like that :-)

We decided to follow this way in my club so it removes one of the most complicated parameters to handle for beginners...
Bry195 likes this.
Airwave is offline  
Old 04-07-2020, 08:40 AM
  #11  
Tech Master
iTrader: (18)
 
bshookup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Olympia, WA
Posts: 1,587
Trader Rating: 18 (100%+)
Default

I just came across a setup sheet on petitrc from a recent race at RCI V2. It looks like they chose a Sweep 24R for the control tire. I would normally think that a 32 would work fine for practice, but it is possible that it is too hard for that track. http://site.petitrc.com/reglages/ser...Iv22020010405/
angrymelon likes this.
bshookup is offline  
Old 04-11-2020, 10:20 AM
  #12  
Tech Apprentice
 
tomcat125's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Lower Alabama
Posts: 68
Default

We've been running rush 28 I believe. Black CRC carpet. Still have to sauce. SXT regular or lite depending on preference or track condition. Sauce for 5 mins, wipe off and hit track. Clean with BBQ lighter fluid when coming off track. (not as harsh on the tires as brake cleaner) I use an empty sxt bottle for the lighter fluid. Apply just like tire sauce, but wipe off immediately because it dries pretty quick.
tomcat125 is offline  
Old 04-12-2020, 06:51 PM
  #13  
Tech Initiate
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 24
Default

Thanks again to everybody for the replies.
My second attempt was successful and I finally drove a car with grip and had some fun.
The sauce is imposed by the track, it is Pardus racing brand, Pro Grip XT formula.
The Rush tires never worked, I assume it is hard compound for asphalt. The 3racing box tires + sauce worked "so-so", but the grip was there with Yokomo 28 tires from Yatabe Arena.
Without sanding, just new tires + 10 min. sauce, the car was ok and the drift away.
And it became better and better after each run / cleaning / saucing.
Now I find on-road ok, driving is fun but I do not like pit time and tires care.
Chris916 is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.