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Old 03-20-2006, 06:59 AM   #106
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To be honest, I don't hold out much hope, as they have set up camp in Racechat which they feel is a good portal to help members.

I think common sense has gone out the window a little, Homologation lists are predominantly for the national scene and for those clubs wanting a strict guidance, there is nothing stopping a club allowing non-homolgated stock motors in and there are plenty of them to be had......
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:05 AM   #107
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there are rumours 1 company was thinking 23t class would be a good idea (japanese market)

but then is 23t so close to 19t what`s the point
23t will be to fast for inddor little clubs , loads of club`s don`t use 19t coz they are to fast in there once a week club meet
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:15 AM   #108
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23T with 8 minute races - Yes, Please
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:51 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank N. Furter
23T with 8 minute races - Yes, Please
that`s not funny
i shake my radio to bit`s in 5 , what state i`ll be in after 8min
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:53 AM   #110
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ok after a brisk read of roar and brca eb rules i have to say they are very similar, although confusingly set out...

some differences i have found are:

general dimensions:27t

armature stack length : brca 21mm min to 22.8mm max, roar just 22.6 max
armature web width: brca 3.5mm minimum wire of 1626mm per pole
roar - max stack diameter of 23.2mm minimum 64 inches (1625.6mm)per pole
both using with 27 turns of 22awg round wire.

can: brca holes positioned between the magnets to determin zero deg and marked on the side of the can. +/- 3 deg tolerance
holes and slots no closer that 5.59mm from top or bottom

roar - just marked on side of can centered by one set of mounting holes.
holes and slots no closer than .220 inch (5.588mm)from top or bottom of can


the thing i have noticed is that BRCA has listed tolerances, where ROAR has not. does not the BRCA see this as giving permission to those that would feel the need to cheat permission to alter the can enuff to get away with it?

where Roar by not mentioning given percentages of tolerances can just say its not 24 deg so tuff and kick the cheat out of the meeting whether its his fault or a manufacturing fault.

Our rules are similar to roar, so it not that a big an issue, but i do think they have limited the supply of legal motors available by the rules.

Given that it is a hobby to most of us, not a competitive sport, this is a big kick in the balls for a majority of us.

If they wanted to limit the motors then just specify a motor for nationals, and at the end of each meeting they are handed to an official to be returned at the next national, get the brca to negioate a cheaper price. this way the brca can certify a motor is as it should be before a meeting, and then fully check the motor after the meeting.... if any tampering is noticed, the driver is penalised and forced to purchase a new motor, thus having to start again.
as well as loose any championship points to date.

motors and armatures can be stamped with BRCA number to avoid any cheating on the day.
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:53 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MR JOLLY
vast mojority of racers don`t care
only top racers use the brcs rules to the letter , but the other 80% race @ club level just want to race , thay can`t get motors either coz of looking after the top 20% stock racers in the rule fertinity

But i have given them a oppertunity here to come on
unlike racechatty place rctech.net is more open & you can aske qusetion`s with out hitler intervening
moaning no !! constructive critisem yes

if it get`s out of hand i can ask guy`s to calm down , calm down

why am i involved , god know`s

olive branch has been put out to the BRCA ,
At club level I haven't seen any club which would prevent you from using a stock or 19T that isn't on the list, I can safely say that up north none bothers checking and it's ok like that, who cares really ? For me lists are for biggish and big series : winter series, BTCC/TORC/STCC and BRCA.

So you're right vast majority of racers don't care since they're only racing at club level, but those rules apply to the "serious" racers who partecipate to these series. And of those racers only a vast minority comes to RC Tech, although it's getting bigger in the UK with people getting banned or tired of race chat (you should follow my example by the way and not say anything bad about race chat if you want a BRCA official to come here, it's called diplomacy ).
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:01 AM   #112
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two things i missed.

1. if you kill a motor then u pay for a new one and hand to brca to check and mark before use.

2.the cost of the first motor could be incorporated into the race entry fees.
so therefore the more nationals u attend the cheaper the first motor...

now i know this would be more work for the brca but im willing to give it a go..

would post on rcracechat but been banned so cant...
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Old 03-20-2006, 08:34 AM   #113
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Well just counted up and i think i'm right in saying so far 23 people have commented on this thread and not all of them are from the UK.

After saying that it dose seem we all believe the Co27 should be legal and the rules should be alter , Changed , relexed or whatever to allow that and in such away that this problem can't crop up again.

1 thing i should say is, i feel confident that of the 3 clubs i race at i don't think 1 person is in favour of the rules a they stand in releantion to the Co27 not making it through and the implications on the availablility of 27t's in general.
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Old 03-20-2006, 09:47 AM   #114
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I think yo uwill find that you HAVE to have tolerances, these are mass produced and even full size cars have tolerances, and millitary jets (fast and slow) and about any other peice of equipment made even your cells....
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Old 03-20-2006, 10:12 AM   #115
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Regarding the batteries, GP 4300 were sent to be homologated before the deadline, the red 4200's weren't. Simple really, the ones sent before the deadline are homologated, the ones that werren't were not. Could that be anymore complicated
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:16 AM   #116
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Just out of interest, and in the context of this thread, does anyone know if we the BRCA members get a vote at the AGM on the rules set out by the Electric Board, or are they self rule makers???
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:34 AM   #117
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cockerill... ok can you buy 4300's ? if so where? if not they are not commercially available thus not legal using brca rules.

having now fully read the roar and brca motor rules, im gonna apologise for any mis understandings at blaming the brca....they arnt to blame.

I think its that trinity are trying to flaunt a rule and use public opinion to sway the market...

the term 27T is based on the winds. well motors are to be made to hold 64 inches on 22awg round wire. Both sets of rules state this. to do this the stacks have to be a certain width and length as to provide 27 turn, with up to one stack having 26.....as most probably are.

if you shorten then stack, and wind to 27Tturn, what happens..less wire faster motors, and technically not a stock motor with 64 inches of wire.

same with the 19T ots only a name its the length and width of the wire that matters in the rules.....and thats what trinity is trying to flaunt..

As for ZZone motors Kos27 Kos19 well armature is ok just the can sucks, but thats an issue for debate already taken place.

From what i see, trinity are trying to get the motor markey back from atlas, reedy and integy as they have been producing some stonking motors.

Now trinity want that piece of pie back......yes they have made a good motor and its meant to be fast, but if it dont meet the rules ...tuff .

At most club meeting you can run what the hell you like anyway, the rules only apply to Nationals really, so it will make a nice even battlefield, but then that could be the reason some people are complaining, as they may have to drive better, or work at it a bit more rather than cheating....:P
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:51 AM   #118
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Wow, what a turn around of opinion, has he been knobbled....
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:51 AM   #119
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I haven't tried buying them, but I will take your word for it that they are not commercially available in the UK, however even if they were they would still not be legal until April 1st. I assume that by April 1st they will be available. They are available to buy in the US now, so I assume it won't be long.

I am an off-road racer so do not know the situation with stock motors, but the job that the EB does is a very good one. Not having to buy new cells mid way through the year when the new cell comes out. Making sure that all motors are legal and capping the cost of batteries and motors. When i went to Italy in 2004 for the Euro's, V2 motors had just come out, price in the UK was ~56 due to the price limit. Price in Italy converted to was ~96, how would you like to pay that for a new motor because we would be without the EB.
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Old 03-20-2006, 12:45 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeburns
Wow, what a turn around of opinion, has he been knobbled....
no not knobbled just read them throughly rather than bits and pieces....slow day at work :P

Also discussed it with an electronics engineer
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