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Old 03-18-2006, 04:59 PM   #76
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Right. Night Night guys,

Oh i might have to look into this "doing something" idea, i like the sound of it. I think i'll find out who my regional rep is and have a chat with them, see if a proposal to change the rules can be made.

Like you said cookie maybe it time to do something .......
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Old 03-18-2006, 05:31 PM   #77
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You will have to look into the 'off-road' section as the BRCA doesn't seem to do regional reps for touing car, but the same rules apply.

re: AGM, they hold the section AGM's then have the main AGM, not that I have been, but being into off-road, my regional Rep, he attends to represent us.... heehee....

Maybe a new thread is needed??
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Old 03-18-2006, 05:47 PM   #78
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Does the BRCA have a proxy vote system, can we discuss and cavass support for ideas here, get someone to suggest and second and then send proxy votes, this may make the job of getting a majority a lot easier, as we can reach a wider audience??

I still think there is no reason why suggested changes cannot be brought up far enough ahead that we use a web system similar to the central booking in, where one brca number equals one vote for each of the suggestions, then it goes to agm for final votes from visitors? It is not possible for all members to attend the AGM, and i bet if they did the rooms wouldn't be big enough

The central booking in is secure enough, certainly for all those entered into a national, if you paid money linked to a brca number you hardly gonna be trying to break the system with fake votes?
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Old 03-19-2006, 02:18 AM   #79
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Sam - I know where you are coming from but it ain't a co-op and that ain't how it works.
Example (using your %):-
Motor selling price 30
Shop cost 20
Distributor cost 15
(Not REAL prices - just to explain things).
So total profit would be 15 with distributor getting a 33% and shop 66% which you think is unfair.
But take the VAT off and the shop only gets 25.53 and then the shop also has to pay p&p (say 53p) on them which leaves 25 and an even 50/50 split. That you would have to agree is fair?
The biggest take always ends up with the Taxman, gets import duty on the way in and Vat on the end.
This would give the shop a gross profit of 20% and distributor 33%, now is that fair?
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Old 03-19-2006, 02:28 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeburns
Does the BRCA have a proxy vote system, can we discuss and cavass support for ideas here, get someone to suggest and second and then send proxy votes, this may make the job of getting a majority a lot easier, as we can reach a wider audience??

I still think there is no reason why suggested changes cannot be brought up far enough ahead that we use a web system similar to the central booking in, where one brca number equals one vote for each of the suggestions, then it goes to agm for final votes from visitors? It is not possible for all members to attend the AGM, and i bet if they did the rooms wouldn't be big enough

The central booking in is secure enough, certainly for all those entered into a national, if you paid money linked to a brca number you hardly gonna be trying to break the system with fake votes?
i LOVE this idea !! although we now need someone that is either well versed with the BRCA or has enough influence to see it is put into action !!

Oh and we also need to work out what to replace the existing ruling with i.e back to the old rules, fall into line with ROAR or some other new ruling ????

But there again i can't see it happening either as at the moment no one i have spoke to seems to think the rule "as is" is in our best interest, so since the rule makers would get such a slating in any vote i think they'll find a way to stop it happening
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Old 03-19-2006, 02:28 AM   #81
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To throw a quirk in the works, it depends on how the distributor pulls the motor into the country, if he brings it in as a fully working product, he pays full import duty, but if it comes in in its component parts, then he pays a lower value....

Nothing is that simple, just ask Colin, small guys GOT to be allowed to sell, but they must also be in the position to sell to the trade. The reason why bigger distributors (CML, Helger etc) don't is that there is clauses in their contracts with the companies they distribute for, that stop them selling to Joe Public, but also remember, CML Distribution used to be CML Models, so they know exactly what the problems are.
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Old 03-19-2006, 02:42 AM   #82
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[QUOTE=Sam_Smith]I agree....if that is how it is but its more like the importer pays 10 (for example as this way off) retail price is as you have said 14 but a shop only expects to pay 11 so they can make 3 therefore squeezing the importers for everything they can, now I know this is business but is that fair?


VAT play`s a big part in this

if any dealer weren`t VAT regs (around 50k year before you have to)
then the shop has to pay the dealer`s VAT for him
motors come in around 18.00
price limit is around 28.99 (i get this wrong)
so sam the shop is not the killer i`m afriad

so why`s my thread been hijacked here from co27 not going through to this
you lot make me so angry , i`m just going down the shop`s to buy some flowers
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Old 03-19-2006, 03:24 AM   #83
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Colin, I blame the evil Trinity pixy motor makers for not follwing the rules properly as they were bought off by the BRCA to force companies into complying with their rules which nobody else has....

Wants some mature Fucia's Colin, lovley pinky purple flowers 9 months of the year... roflol
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Old 03-19-2006, 05:08 AM   #84
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but for some reason
i can`t get over the fact that epic made that co27t mid last year released late last year
then the BRCA put in 2 `new` rules in jan this year
webbing thing & hood allignment one (which is just pant`s)

all these guy`s are making rules up up there in top of system
then you go to a club race meet & no cares
should we have rules for `blue riband event`s` ie nat`s then when scaled down to make life easier for every one inc scuritineering guy`s

on 1 hand racers want rules to make it fair play & compitive
then on the other hand you get racer`s using the `it`s only toy car racing` card when thing`s don`t go there way
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Last edited by MR JOLLY; 03-19-2006 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 03-19-2006, 06:16 AM   #85
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Colin, think you hit it on the head there, when someone bends the rules, it is toy cars, but when they are caught, the rules are stupid.

I think a modicum of common sense has GOT to prevail in the end, are your club 'play days' realy that serious that you HAVE to follow the letter of the rule?? If someone wants to cheat there, then they are only cheating themselves. At competitions that specificaly state 'to BRCA rules' then thats it, homologated motors etc.... Or you can state than any Stock motor that conforms to the rules.

Rules are there for a reason, so everyone knows where they stand, but also, common sense.... at a club day I would rather see 30 people run stock with old nd not homologated motors than 10 running and 20 pissed off people.

About the rule changes, if the motor had been homologated before the rule changes it would of been allowed and still legal now, just like the Z-Zone would of been, but they missed the change over date, so are no longer legal.
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:26 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Jolly
i can`t get over the fact that epic made that co27t mid last year released late last year
then the BRCA put in 2 `new` rules in jan this year
webbing thing & hood allignment one (which is just pant`s)
Colin get it right the Co27 was only released this year and we have only been able to get the from the beginning of March from the US. Haven't seen any in any of the UK shops yet.
Look at the Komodo, that was supposed to have been out in mid-Feb and now it is looking at end of April at best. Trinity do like advance publicty!
The rules that were put on the website in Jan would have been decided at the Agm last year.
From what I was told about the brush hood thing is that some were doing it and that it was cheating as the timing was being altered.

Cookie- The ZZ fails under last years and Roar rules, Mike Smith did see the designs and told them of the problem and they still went ahead (thread on RaceChat).

At club level most clubs have a 'run what you brung' policy and allow whatever body, motor, batteries, etc. as long as it a 10th tourer.
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Old 03-19-2006, 11:19 AM   #87
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Microtech had some co27's last week, and good to see they stated "Please note this motor is NOT BRCA Legal", so that everyone knows.
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:09 PM   #88
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The Komoda has never had a end of feb release date.....we have always been told Q2 2006....

And thats straight from Ernie P himself...


And the BRCA motor rules are very weird.....approving motors by a sticker is pointless.....ROAR has it right with the teardown.....

The C027 is lasting longer than monsters or ROARs........so, bummer its not allowed...


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Old 03-20-2006, 01:04 AM   #89
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komodo
it was mentioned end on aprilish mayish junish sort of time

apart from BRCA being weird

would you think the motor rules are too tight
so tight it is strangling the forword motion of 27t/19t motors spec in the tech department
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Old 03-20-2006, 02:58 AM   #90
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ok as a 19T racer...well trying to be look at it from this point of view.

Motors used last year.:

atlas blue can and c2 mainly, corally black, v2 dynasty.

Words direct from Demon Products...Trinity no longer selling C2 cans.
New integy/atlas can is illegal cos holes (DOH!) are not together, even though 0 deg is plainly visible on the can. which is more than can be said for most other cans.

Corally black spec can may work, but which brush set up laydown or standup, V2's well old hat but may still work.

Personally my opinion is this:

Stock 27T....fixed timing 24 deg, bushings...yep fine ok with that....does it need to be any more difficult? as long as the arm has 1 piece of wire wrapped 27 times and has the correct resistance...wats the fookin' problem.

Spec 19T.....fixed timing and deg and bearing....pretty much same arguement as above but why not have variable timing, ok some would cook motors just to win.....hope they have loads of money.

The thing is the BRCA rule changes stops any of the new motors being usable at a national event, and yes perhaps i should go to outer mongolia for the AGM, but i shouldnt have too....the AGM should be accessible to all with a BRCA number via an online system.........

The thing that would get the BRCA attention is if all racers put there foot down and decided not to race until the BRCA hears them out.

Perhaps a refusal to race at the first meeting to get the BRCA committe to call an emergency meeting......

because it would seem all they are doing atm is burying there heads in the sand with the "should have come to the AGM" bollocks, when they should be actively informing members of the issues and what is being done to resolve it..

Information is power, they are holding up progress, empower the people with knowledge and they will support you, hide information to cover up blunders and the people will hate you.....

Look at the tory government, labour rules cos they know t hey fook up and they tell every one.....

as to colin's original post.....looks like a no to the c027
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