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Old 03-18-2006, 04:07 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Merciless
Sorry this is not so much about our rules being wrong(which incedently they are), more that we don't count for a large enough part of the stock motor market to be making them and expecting the GAINTS of the industry to really care.

IMO the brca should set rules for things they can influence , race distance/time ,track width ,minimum weight etc. etc. and leave the manufacturing rules and tollerences to the BODIES that can influence the manufactures
then organise your own race series and do what you want, or not take part in BRCA ruled events.... simple, you don't HAVE to race do you, you choose to, you choose where and what rules you run to, no point complaining about them if you are not willing to go do your own thing??
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Old 03-18-2006, 04:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
27 turns of a set width copper wire allowed?
There is already a minimum length of wire.

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BUT there is a minimum allowed length of wire specified which may have led to that rule (smaller web = shorter wire).
Finally, someone has worked it out!

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disributers sell them on ebay and there internet sites not supply the shops.
Still sore over TS then? From what I've heard, it ain't going too well for them and shops won't deal with them as they are crap.
What about 'grey imports'? I'm sure the distributors would like the BRCA to sort that one out too!
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Old 03-18-2006, 04:32 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merciless
Sorry this is not so much about our rules being wrong(which incedently they are), more that we don't count for a large enough part of the stock motor market to be making them and expecting the GAINTS of the industry to really care.

IMO the brca should set rules for things they can influence , race distance/time ,track width ,minimum weight etc. etc. and leave the manufacturing rules and tollerences to the BODIES that can influence the manufactures
But they do care!
We are large enough to count.
And the BRCA does have influence.
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Old 03-18-2006, 04:44 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Frank N. Furter
Still sore over TS then? From what I've heard, it ain't going too well for them and shops won't deal with them as they are crap.
What about 'grey imports'? I'm sure the distributors would like the BRCA to sort that one out too!
that`s a bit harsh on the product that is fine it`s the other bit that goes with it i afriad
And no. i can`t elaborate

don`t think i.a.s is sore over TS dude
he`s well laid back
i`m with him though over the ebay thingy ,shop`s only job i think
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Old 03-18-2006, 04:46 AM   #35
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Personaly, I think e-Sales is just as importat as putting them in the shop to, BUT if you are going o eBay them, then they shouldn't be at a price that shops who buy them at trade can't beat your price, as they are 'commercialy available' as you are willing to sell them to shops, but you then undercut the shops RRP uy selling tem on eBay for less than RRP. We got to allow the small guys in to play, but thn they also got to play by the same set of rules and play fair, if they can't, then there homologation shold be removed killing their sales, but we don't want that sort of action do we?

Grey imports, don't know howyou would manage that to be honest.
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Old 03-18-2006, 06:00 AM   #36
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Not sore at all could of been any one selling on ebay would of said the same if it was the Jolly master himself.
Just dont think that I should have to buy a product that should be avalible in the shops for me to purchase along with my fellow racers from ebay. They do seem to be the only guys that have a monster of any kind in the bloody country.
I just dont have any skims left on mine so needed to buy one or no racing.

just needs sorting out how are all you guys finding it to be able to buy a motor have a look around to see how hard it is.

I blame Jolly if he hadnt started getting in quick motors we would all still be using stock monsters which you could buy in any shop even model zone!
bad man

Jolly shinewater last one next week?
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:09 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DA_cookie_monst
then organise your own race series and do what you want, or not take part in BRCA ruled events.... simple, you don't HAVE to race do you, you choose to, you choose where and what rules you run to, no point complaining about them if you are not willing to go do your own thing??
I REALLY hope we get to meet up some day then your personel attacks will be sorted out to MY satisfaction i promise you

For the club i race at the association with the BRCA has as much to do with insurance as anything else, for the members i suspose your aware that if you are wanting to go to any of the BIGGER events you'll be needing a brca membership number.

So next time you come up with some stupid idea like " go do your own thing" at least think about how ridiculous you sound .......

Last edited by Merciless; 03-18-2006 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:37 AM   #38
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Ir I wanted to attack you on here, I would, but I was being serious, if you are NOT happy with things, then form your own club/organisation/event to your own rules, then you can do as you like. I don't see that as an attack, more a general statement.

OR

Go to the AGM and either get yourself elected onto the BRCA board, or be active in the making and changing of regulations. And then earn the right to moan about the rules, just like a General Election, can't complain about government policy when you can't be bothered to get off your arse to vote.

OR

Accept them and learn to live with them.

No wonder this country has earnt a reputation for being full of moaners, as that is what we do, me included.
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Old 03-18-2006, 08:45 AM   #39
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can i reffer you to the second paragraph of my last post again , think you must of miss read it or not understood.

insurance/want to be able to race at other clubs etc.

Not moaning, as you put it "making a statement" i beleive it is nonsense for the UK to believe stock motors will be made to meet our rules and not the rules of the bigger ruling bodies out there.

Personely as long as i can get a good 27t i'll be happy, but at the minute i can't.I can only see this situation get worse if it's harder for the manufactures to get a motor homologated here.
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:04 AM   #40
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I still don't see your point, you don't care realy about the rules as long as you can get a good motor, and the only way you will get that is by having decent, easily read rules. If a manufacturer can't make a motor to clearly defined rules, then that is their problem and I am pretty sure someone would happily step in there with a decent product.

In the end, you got to have rules, rules make the racing fare, and easily regulted , otherwise why not just have a handout motor... would stop the need for 'stock' motor rules wouldn't it.
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:35 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank N. Furter
There is already a minimum length of wire.
Didn't say there wasn't. I was outlining which rules I thought were necessary. Read the post before you criticise

To be honest you sound pretty sore about TS yourself. I use brood, but the message I'm hearing is about TS being successful, not crap. Why would Team Scream need to deal through model shops when they're in the UK anyway? model shops are more useful if you were selling products abroad through a distributor.
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:45 AM   #42
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ralph
why we need model shop`s
coz there is a unwritten rule that buyer`s support the shop`s ,shop`s will support the tracks near you, so the hobby grow`s blah blah blah etc,etc

marciless & DA

you can stop know PLEASE
your winding each other up here

i.a.s
you blame me ??
i blame helgar,CML,Mirage me self
if they took care of the spec classes in the first place instead of concertrating on a dying class & poxy airplanes then this would not of happened (possible)
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:48 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DA_cookie_monst

In the end, you got to have rules, rules make the racing fare, and easily regulted , otherwise why not just have a handout motor... would stop the need for 'stock' motor rules wouldn't it.
Handouts was what I was about to suggest. Many of the non-ROAR major races in the US use a handout to limit this somewhat. But even this has its potential flaws - there is nothing (of which I am aware) to prevent a racer or motor builder from buying 10 or more motors to find 1 or 2 "golden" motors.

I made a similar point in the ROAR (being a US racer) on-road rules discussion. At some point, a person who has the means to and is willing to spend extravagant amounts of money, for a potentially small advantage, is going to do so.

Merciless - I absolutely understand your point. The above-mentioned discussion has many posts wondering why ROAR chooses to differ from IFMAR. In the end, I think it comes down to geography. Even within the US, the differences in geography result in some truly staggering differences in opinions on what is right. Those of us trapped in the northeast (like me ) do most of our racing on small indoor carpet tracks. Those in Florida and Southern California spend more of their time on large outdoor tracks. So the stock motors that most novices find totally unmanageable here are downright boring for the outdoor racers. I think this is where much of that ROAR discussion comes from.

To expect what works for the averge US racer to be appropriate for you kind folk in the UK is arrogant on the part of us in the US, I think. If you have specific geographical or climatological concerns that dicatate certain approaches to motors (or what have you), then I think it should be your perrogative to do so.

It's discussions like this that leave me torn between one big global RC governing body, and just running whatever you like (or works) at your local track!

Either way gentlemen, I think you both have very good points. If you know someone on this forum who is part of the BRCA rules-making organization, point them to this thread. Get their input and see if a workable solution isn't already in the works.

Have fun guys - racing is still just the joy of hanging out with friends at a much dryer and more energetic pub (without the beer, of course)!!
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:50 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by DA_cookie_monst
Rik, I thought the test samples were supposed to be 'random samples' of a batch of components not ones specifically measured to make them 'fit' the rules, maybe this is me being cynical in the way you worded it.
No. Sample motors are sent to the laboratory by the manufacturer for testing. Approval is based on the specifications of these samples. There is no spot checking of random components at any time.
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Old 03-18-2006, 09:50 AM   #45
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Importers should not be direct to public sellers, they are cutting out the model shops who keep this sport running. The importer who sells to the public is taking a cut of the profit twice, and they are not even lowering their prices because of it.

Importers should import, and sell to shops, shops should sell to public.
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