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State of modified onroad in the US

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State of modified onroad in the US

Old 03-07-2020, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
Going from a low-stress modified to wringing the piss out of a 6.5 like its a stock motor will not help, especially after they realize that the guys who win at open mod win at 6.5. It will just mean we have three stock classes and no open modified at all.

Sadly i agree
6.5 mod in the USA becomes a new spec class to cheat in

At carpet nats mod 1/12 returned to boosted and we have a huge discrepancy in first to last (8 cars)

The mains tomorrow will likely be a disaster caused by someone 3+ laps down -- yeah, i said it
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:24 PM
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Our Canadian Nationals will have 63+ entries in mod TC and for comparison 23 mod 1/12 racers. It helps that the track size is conducive to running modified but mod 1/12 seems to be a falling off and getting any steam bringing it back.

I think once “Factory Drivers” started racing in stock - it made it okay to not want to have to move up to the “Premier Class”. Mod is about driving and control in my opinion. The tire management, and a level of self control that is needed that makes the class unappealing to those that have learned to drive with a light switch throttle in the “spec classes”.

17.5 is plenty fast - faster then I remember mod being in the sub-C days. Mod is harder on the car and tires - 17.5 is harder on the wallet when looking at costs of batteries and motors (if you’re a top percentage driver where these things make a difference).

Personally I think 17.5 is too fast for some and not fast enough for others. The gap in speed (lap times) between 17.5 and mod at most tracks doesn’t justify wanting to move up. Increase that gap by changing the motors used for “stock” racing and you might see more moving to modified again - but the one or two run tire situation is something that might need to be fixed before more look at the class.

Last edited by duckman996; 03-07-2020 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 03-07-2020, 09:33 PM
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There a are a few racers running 21.5 at the carpet NATS who've run Mod in the past at National event, IJS
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Last edited by dawgmeat; 07-28-2020 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 03-07-2020, 10:09 PM
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Whats funny about this is that based on the number of people who show up for the championship, racing modified 1/12 scale is harder than this:

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Old 03-08-2020, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
If you cant replace your throttle with a little switch that you dont even have to release for the hairpin a the end of the straight, its too fast and needs MORE RULES. Nobody really races Mod in the US, apparently its too hard.
Not sure the size of the tracks you race on, but at my local track I need throttle control with my 21.5 tc (36’x60’). Now vta is either full throttle or breaks. We used to run 17.5 but the cars are too fast for the track.

Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
Track size? Indoor tracks in the US seem to be getting smaller. Doesn't really lend itself to high speed or boost/turbo unless you just want to go back and forth the length of the track. Deb's indoor was barely big enough (dirt or carpet), coastal....jury is still out.
And that is essentially it. When I first started racing I ran off road on a track my dad and I built. As we learned to drive we expanded the track and we gravitated to mod motors. Let me tell you, running a 5.5 in a 4wd buggy was awesome, but the track was 100’x60’ and the narrowest lane was 8’.

If I were running on Larger track, yeah, I’d run mod. Some of the tracks I see for on road outdoor events look so fun. But there is no point on small indoor tracks.


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Old 03-08-2020, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
Sadly i agree
6.5 mod in the USA becomes a new spec class to cheat in

At carpet nats mod 1/12 returned to boosted and we have a huge discrepancy in first to last (8 cars)

The mains tomorrow will likely be a disaster caused by someone 3+ laps down -- yeah, i said it
Then maybe the solution is to make race distance/time much longer??? You will slow cars down significantly as zero chance to go 10-12 minutes with 3.5. It will still be open class but speeds will go down and introduce some actual strategy again into 1/12 racing. Maybe need to have good pack all the time but when was the last time anyone went to major event and ran old packs.....

Make racing great again by bring back "dumping" with two minutes to go....hahaha.

What I loved about 1/8 racing is the "fastest" racer doesn't always win but the clever racer always does...
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Old 03-08-2020, 10:18 AM
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It's not just modified in the US that is dead, it's onroad in general.. Indoor, outdoor, electric, nitro, makes no difference. The time, money, and dedication it takes to be competitive today has ran off the average racer. Back in the day we could all have a attitude about things and if you didn't like it oh well.. there simply aren't enough onroad racers left to continue with this attitude. Organizers and tracks need to start making onroad appeal to the average racer in 2020 quick, it's going to have to be made much more affordable and much simpler or it's a matter of time before a thread pops up on here saying "does anyone remember running onroad". Not really trying to be the grim reaper or anything but onroad isn't bent, in a slump, or anything else. It's flat out broken !!
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:45 AM
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Don't forget the track layout in the states. I understand it may just be a SOCal trend, but the indoor track tends to be very technical and tight for a mod car to lay down all its power. The 17.5 pan car was almost as fast as a 13.5 sedan in TQRC.... For the outdoor ,the TAMIYA track is bigger, but compare to the circuits usually featured in the ifmar, a driver can do a lap for half of the time.Never had a chance to see the steel rc but seems like it is a much bigger facility.

It is also much easier to learn driving a stock TC. I spent a month in TQ and transformed from crashing each lap to 4th place in b main of a TCS regional (21.5). I doubt I could do it if I was in modified class. The only thing I learn is keeping momentum as long as you can. After all, there is only that much talent down in my well : )

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Old 03-08-2020, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by duckman996 View Post
Our Canadian Nationals will have 63+ entries in mod TC and for comparison 23 mod 1/12 racers. It helps that the track size is conducive to running modified but mod 1/12 seems to be a falling off and getting any steam bringing it back.

I think once “Factory Drivers” started racing in stock - it made it okay to not want to have to move up to the “Premier Class”. Mod is about driving and control in my opinion. The tire management, and a level of self control that is needed that makes the class unappealing to those that have learned to drive with a light switch throttle in the “spec classes”.

17.5 is plenty fast - faster then I remember mod being in the sub-C days. Mod is harder on the car and tires - 17.5 is harder on the wallet when looking at costs of batteries and motors (if you’re a top percentage driver where these things make a difference).

Personally I think 17.5 is too fast for some and not fast enough for others. The gap in speed (lap times) between 17.5 and mod at most tracks doesn’t justify wanting to move up. Increase that gap by changing the motors used for “stock” racing and you might see more moving to modified again - but the one or two run tire situation is something that might need to be fixed before more look at the class.
Skill set is very different.... I never drive a mod car but I could see the throttle and brake is applied in a very different way. It will take quite a well to get used to the difference, maybe that's part of the reason mod has fewer attendance.

As for the gap, was there a intermediate class ever exist? Things like 13.5 boosted or 10.5 superstock have disappeared for very long time...
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Old 03-08-2020, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Racermac73 View Post
It's not just modified in the US that is dead, it's onroad in general.. Indoor, outdoor, electric, nitro, makes no difference. The time, money, and dedication it takes to be competitive today has ran off the average racer. Back in the day we could all have a attitude about things and if you didn't like it oh well.. there simply aren't enough onroad racers left to continue with this attitude. Organizers and tracks need to start making onroad appeal to the average racer in 2020 quick, it's going to have to be made much more affordable and much simpler or it's a matter of time before a thread pops up on here saying "does anyone remember running onroad". Not really trying to be the grim reaper or anything but onroad isn't bent, in a slump, or anything else. It's flat out broken !!
Brand new very high class and quality carpet indoor road and offroad track just opened in my area several months ago.

Offroad Saturday 2wd buggy fills a D main, and growing into an E, with Thursday club races filling a C and growing into a D. Stock Slash novice fills a full main....and growing.

Onroad Saturday.....3 makes a class, and the only reason anyone gets to play is because the 3 owners run so the other 2 paying guys can run. Struggling to get a full heat of VTA, USGT, or anything else. 21.5 TC seems most popular followed by GT12......but it's ALL hit or miss. Very few newbs. Oval every other week is a ghost town.

Many of the experienced TC guys have simply moved on into carpet offroad and never looked back.
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Old 03-08-2020, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by J.Gonzalez View Post
Then maybe the solution is to make race distance/time much longer??? You will slow cars down significantly as zero chance to go 10-12 minutes with 3.5. It will still be open class but speeds will go down and introduce some actual strategy again into 1/12 racing. Maybe need to have good pack all the time but when was the last time anyone went to major event and ran old packs.....

Make racing great again by bring back "dumping" with two minutes to go....hahaha.

What I loved about 1/8 racing is the "fastest" racer doesn't always win but the clever racer always does...
Making the race time longer will just mean running bigger batteries. There is no rule against running a 20,000mah battery, and if there was a demand for them they would exist. If you somehow made another RULE saying that you could only run small pack, of say 5000mah, that would be nearly impossible to regulate because as we all know battery packs are not equal, and we would have the problem we had with the old cells where the good batteries were segregated out for the race team and everyone else got what was left.

The truth is that people don't run Mod for two reasons. People who think they lack the talent or experience to race mod never bother and keep racing stock, and people who would race Mod don't want to run alone so they never get any practice or experience, then when the big nationals event comes around they stick with what they know.
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Old 03-08-2020, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by trilerian View Post
We used to run 17.5 but the cars are too fast for the track.
This sort of statement hurts my soul. There is no situation where 17.5 is too fast for the track.

I have to wonder, in your new 21.5 Slow Touring class, would you let someone run an illegal motor? I think the answer would be a resounding NO because more power would mean faster laps, so dont tell me that the motors are too fast for the track.
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Old 03-08-2020, 12:22 PM
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Which again gets us back to my original question because we don't have guys who can compete with the best in the world when the time comes at major events like the Snowbirds or IIC or the IFMAR worlds. Heck a stock class was offered as an official championship for the first time and the best we got was 6th in 12th scale (jury is still out on touring car).

Is there anything that can be done with modified onroad in the US?
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Old 03-08-2020, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by trackdesigner71 View Post
Which again gets us back to my original question because we don't have guys who can compete with the best in the world when the time comes at major events like the Snowbirds or IIC or the IFMAR worlds. Heck a stock class was offered as an official championship for the first time and the best we got was 6th in 12th scale (jury is still out on touring car).

Is there anything that can be done with modified onroad in the US?
This is a gross oversimplification. In 1/12 in the US, American drivers are every bit as fast as anyone, in Europe or Asia its as simple as the traction being radically different and it favors the racers who are more accustomed to that racing surface. IFMAR had been a bit of a comedy of errors for a while, like their Touring world championship where only three cars would finish the A main heat race because everyone not in the running for a top finish pulled off to save their tires, tires they were explicitly not allowed to run any sort of traction additive on. Or the 1/12 worlds in the US a few years ago where they had a bad tire sauce that ran no groove into the carpet at all, that massively favored people used to racing on what is more typical in Europe.

No slight meant to any of the racers involved skill, but this track surface and layout were both terrible:


What I think could be useful for Modified is a rule like they have in 1:1 superbike racing, there is a "breakout time" or something of the like that keeps slow racers from potentially hurting the top racers by preventing the need to overtake lapped traffic, where you cant run in the main event if you're going to be a full lap or more slower than the leaders. I would set it up where, basically, if you're more than 3 laps behind the TQ, you are running in the B, even if that means only four racers are A main qualifiers.

The only real thing that will put more americans in the A at big events is more americans running modified. It's just that simple, and that hard.
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Old 03-08-2020, 12:52 PM
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On road maybe dead where you are from but not here. Oval is presently on life support here (FLA). Look it's simple batteries and motors have all gotten way better than when I started racing. First hot laps for any class was never around with round cells. All the motors regardless of what class 25.5-21.5-17.5-13.5-10.5 and others are faster that what they replaced in the old brushed days. The major problem is lack of tracks to race- getting people there to race. My closest on road track is 148 miles one way. Off road tracks are all around me. Closest is 30 minutes away. to get wheel time I bought an offroad car to race. I hate dirt! But it has helped me with my on-road racing. I forgot about throttle driving that much.
One class here in florida that has been dead for years was 1/12th anything. We made a GT12 class that has brought racers back into racing that have been gone for years. Yes it's slower but it's put the fun back into a dead class. I remember when TC first started and it killed the pan car classes. The cars got more maintance and grew but ran away many of the pan racers. Which was our biggest class of racers. The more complicated and maintance needed for the youngsters to work on now a days runs them off. Plus their attitude if they cant win right off they are gone. Go to any hobby shop and see what they sell RTR crap that is not cheap but they don't have to build it qand when they break they take it to the shop to get repaired. they are just to lazy to fix it or it is to hard. That's what we are dealing with nowadays- they are just to lazy to work on the equipment and practice to get better. It 's takes to long to get better........
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