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Old 03-16-2006, 06:12 AM   #1
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Default Newbie to brushless setups

Hello Iím new here anyway Iím about to purchase a on road car from a friend for fun now maybe competition racing later, I need some advice on a brushless setup whatís a high quality brushless motor and speed controller? I can get the LRP brand or basically anything from the racing lines magazine in Australia.
Can anyone advise me on a good brand? I want this thing to do 100mph+
also I was hoping to use a 14.4v lipo battery if possible.
Thanks
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Old 03-16-2006, 09:38 AM   #2
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Lrp & Novak both make excellent brushless systems..

Brushless will save you a lot money....
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Old 03-16-2006, 05:59 PM   #3
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*cough*...

100km/h is fast... 100MPH is bloody quick mate. Hope you have access to the velodrome...

I use the Novak GTB 5.5R and i'm very pleased with it. The 4.5 is faster still. Definatley equal to low turn power.. the 5.5R is around 9t range.
The biggest plus for me is that Novak have amazing product support.. Absolutley fantastic..

The LRP product i'm told has a little more low end... not sure about the support though. Both a still great systems.. Having only used the Novak i can only comment on that, but you won't regret it.

Very smooth, lots of power, good battery consumption..


If it's lipo you're after.. then maybe look at the LRP..
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Old 03-16-2006, 06:02 PM   #4
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100 mph eh? Good luck with that

I hear mixed things about the Novak GTB though.
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Old 03-17-2006, 01:57 AM   #5
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I can get novak / lrp products and I can get nimh batteries as well but I prefer high voltage lipo.
How good is the lrp vector motor? it looks good.
How good is the novak they make a HV-Maxx, VelocitiÖÖ..etc

I canít work out which is the best motor that novak makes, I think itís the Velociti 4.5R???
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Old 03-17-2006, 07:09 AM   #6
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Having no personal experience with brushless setups, I am somewhat reluctant to post on this, but your questions are too ambiguous to make a positive recomendation yet.

The Novak GTB is limited to 6 1.2V cells, the LRP to 7. Neither of these will do anything but devolve into charred ruin if you try to hit them with 14.4V.

The Novak HV-MAXX is intended for use in the Traxax E-Maxx, and it uses a larger than "540-sized" motor that won't fit well into a standard touring car or 1/10-scale offroad truck.

The systems that you have heard about that can handle 14.4V are the older, sensorless-brushless systems, and these are what have been used to get (in one case) an 1/8th scale buggy to 80+ mph. Check out http://rc-monster.com/ for info on these brushless setups. You won't find much on them here for two reasons:

1) They are not legal for competition in any major sanctioning body of which I am aware.

2) Because they don't use a sensor (encoder), they don't know the exact postition of the rotor, and they have to sort of guess where it is and apply power accordingly. The results (as Mamba owners with cheap battery packs will tell you) is called "cogging." This can result in very spotty accelleration from a dead stop, and inconsistent handling out of corners.

Not all sensorless systems are difficult to race with, but it seems that the majority of people are more comfortable with the LRP and Novak systems for racing. For outright speed, get ahold of RC-Monster and they can hook you up with a setup that will hit 90+mph without melting down. Be prepared for some sticker-shock, though. Those super-high-power systems are NOT cheap!


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Old 03-20-2006, 06:20 AM   #7
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The people at rc-moster.com are humming and haring too

Whatís this Novak HV-MAXX? Iím interested in itÖ.Iíll make it fit

Surely there is a brushless set up that can send a carbon fiber touring car around 100mph, I can gear it to most ratios to achieve these speeds if possible. I still donít know what to getÖ..ok these are the brands I can get a good hold of: lrp, novak, nosram, and some others that are harder to get.
What about the nosram storm http://www.nosram.com/products.asp?id=30
It says itís up to 8.4v so that means I canít run it of say 22v??

If not what is the closest setup I can reach massive speeds with?
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Old 03-20-2006, 06:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayden
Hello Iím new here anyway Iím about to purchase a on road car from a friend for fun now maybe competition racing later, I need some advice on a brushless setup whatís a high quality brushless motor and speed controller? I can get the LRP brand or basically anything from the racing lines magazine in Australia.
Can anyone advise me on a good brand? I want this thing to do 100mph+
also I was hoping to use a 14.4v lipo battery if possible.
Thanks
you can try this one


here is a link
http://www.hackerbrushless.com/cars/emax.shtml
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:53 AM   #9
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Hayden,

I don't want to harsh your (admittedly cool) buzz. That said, the current top speed record for ANY 1/10 RC car is only 110mph. So trying to put together off the shelf components to hit 100mph (less that 10% slower) is not going to be a slam-dunk.

Here's what I've found for you, though:

http://www.rc-monster.com/proddetail...troller&cat=21

This is the BK 20150 car controller, and is rated for 4 to 20 1.2V cells (so 14.4 or 12 cells is a good fit) and it can handle up to 150 Amps.

Next up is the Feigao brushless motor 540 8L

http://www.rc-monster.com/brushlessmotors.php?pg=2

(about half-way down the page)

at 14.4V and 3072rpm/volt, that's about 45k rpm. And both the motor and the controller can handle more cells, so you can probably bump that up to 50k with some judicious gearing choices. Also, with the bigger controller, if you can squeeze in a bigger motor, the controller will be able to handle it.

Now that said, assuming a TC tire diameter of 59mm, (7.2974 inch diameter), 100mph is 528,000 ft/hr = 8800ft/min = 105600 in/min.

This requires a tire speed of 14,471 rpm to hit 100mph. My Pro4 has an internal ratio of roughly 2.4/1, so with a motor speed of 45k rpm, you need a pinion/spur ratio of 1.29578/1 to hit 100mph. With a 100t spur, this equates to a 77 tooth pinion.

I'm pretty sure that any motor is going to have a tough time pushing a ratio that tall. It might get there eventually, but it's going to take a LOT of room to get there. You might even have to follow it in a chase vehicle to make top speed.

So I guess all I can say now is what is so often said in these situations. I think the controller I suggested will cover you, but you'll have to put some time in to find the perfect motor. Once you do, put it together, grab a radar gun, and let us all know how it works! Who knows - if you do it right, you might have YOUR name up as the world's fastest RC driver!!

Oh yeah, and make DARN sure you get a video!!!
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Old 03-20-2006, 01:05 PM   #10
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Hey...Im new to the whole electric thing and first am wondering what the up sides to brushless are compaired to normal motors and what the speed difference is between the 5.5r-6.5r-7.5-r8.5r brushless motors.

Thanks
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Old 03-20-2006, 11:21 PM   #11
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I think you should be looking at one of the Hacker brushless systems or something like that. The Novak and LRP are made for touring car racing which means there are rules that they go by. If you are racing touring cars you wouldn't be allowed to run a 14.4V lipo.
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Old 03-21-2006, 12:14 AM   #12
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Here's how the current Novak and Reedy brushless motors compare to one another. The turns are brushless speak, and not a direct comparison to turns in a brushed motor. This is simply for comparison between the two brands.

Novak Brushless:
4.5R (4.5 turns)
5.5R (5.5 turns)
6.5R (6.5 turns)
7.5R (7.5 turns)
5800 (8.5 turns)
4300 (10.5 turns)

Reedy Brushless:
1-Star (8.5 turns)
2-Star (7.5 turns)
3-Star (6.5 turns)
4-Star (5.5 turns)
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Old 03-22-2006, 01:47 AM   #13
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How about the novak hv-maxx how fast approximately will that push my 1/10 touring car at 14.4v? if its bigger I can make it fit.
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Old 03-22-2006, 03:09 AM   #14
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It's a matter of horses for courses mate...

Firstly... 100MPH is BLOODY quick for an rc... you'll need an oval somewhere to get up to that kind of speed.

The HV_Maxx is designed to be a high torque system for monster trucks. Not too sure whether it'll actually be very fast at all in a 1:10 touring car. Low revs - big torque.

If it's all out speed you're after then look for one of the Hacker sensorless systems. Easily the fastest touring sized systems out there. Crazy fast...


If you actually want to race the thing, or be able to later on... then hold on to your horses and wait.
The Novak GTB is currently the fastest comp. ready system out there at the moment(GTB with 4.5R). It's legal and equal to 7t power. Very quick indeed.
You'll be able to get it over 100km/h(just a touch over) on a velodrome with TALL gearing...


However, Novak have been working on a 3.5 for some time from what i hear. This system is too fast even for current 1:10 sized tracks... maybe on a 1:8 scale nitro track they'll be good. Bloody quick...


OR... go the traditional route and get a regular no limit ESC, a whole bunch of cells, a tuned low turn motor and go nuts.(A slammed oval shell would help too)

And finally... how fast will a HV-Max go?.. dunno. You tell me:

What car you running?
What tires you running on what rollout?
What shell you running?
On a track? Velodrome? In the street?
WHich cells? NiMH or Lipo?

There's no easy answer to your question unfortunately...


Do some research on the Hacker systems... like i said. Crazy fast...They will be your best bet..
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Old 03-22-2006, 05:39 AM   #15
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Iím not going for an insane speed now as its too hard expensive thanks for than advice so Iím going for maximum, speed, control and so I can race it later. I have found this setup it looks good, Iíll price it tomorrow at work see how much the motor and esc setup will cost.

I like this one:

http://www.teamnovak.com/products/br...tem/index.html
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