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A decent cheap shaft drive car touring car. Where did they all go?

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A decent cheap shaft drive car touring car. Where did they all go?

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Old 07-25-2019, 01:53 PM
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I want a mid-engine racer car at honda civic price or else I cry!
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Old 07-25-2019, 01:57 PM
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A belt and pulley drive system with proper tooth profile will provide practically zero backlash. Belt can also smoothly stretch out according to how much torque is applied to the pulley. These characteristics seem to allow for the best traction control at the highest 1/10 Touring car racing level. A gear drive system is the opposite. It will always have some small amount of play or backlash. Gear teeth are designed to be strong and rigid, and can't be stretched the way a belt can. I don't race RC cars though, but these are the fundamental engineering differences. Maybe a pro racer can chime in and share actual driving experience between the two.
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Old 07-25-2019, 01:58 PM
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some just cry and not willing to pay. some would innovate.

wtcc's TT-02 KR
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Old 07-25-2019, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Billy Kelly View Post

Not necessarily. There’s a difference between what’s needed and wanted. Some just want shiny bit when a plastic part would work just fine.
I'm .... careful.. on accessory purchases. :-)

Lets run an experiment? What would it take to get a TT02s to "advanced touring car" status. Lets assume you're ok with using shims on the shocks. You still lose out on droop adjustment.. though there are aftermarket plates for droop.
  • Droop adjustment plate - (I've seen them, but can't find one right now..)
  • diff locking block (or JB weld lock..) ($13 for the tamiya part, $2 for glueing it.)
  • Fluid filled diff ($32 for the tamiya part)
  • CVD's for the front ($32 for tamiya parts, $10 for yeah racing)
  • Spur adapter ($13 for tamiya parts, $9 for a proper spur, $5 for a proper pinion)
  • heavy duty servo saver ($13-30)
  • aluminum motor mount.
That's what I'd consider essential. Or about $150.

The following would be nice...
  • hard tub ($8)
  • threaded shocks ($22, for yeah racing)
  • aluminum drive shaft ($13 for yeah racing, this gets rid of "spring" in the driveline)
  • upper deck ($30)
So another $70 for the "nice stuff" And where are you at? That's right at $450. Buy a TB05.
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Old 07-25-2019, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by userst View Post
A belt and pulley drive system with proper tooth profile will provide practically zero backlash. Belt can also smoothly stretch out according to how much torque is applied to the pulley. These characteristics seem to allow for the best traction control at the highest 1/10 Touring car racing level. A gear drive system is the opposite. It will always have some small amount of play or backlash. Gear teeth are designed to be strong and rigid, and can't be stretched the way a belt can. I don't race RC cars though, but these are the fundamental engineering differences. Maybe a pro racer can chime in and share actual driving experience between the two.
The timing belts we use in r/c have essentially no stretch. Any change in tension you're seeing is the teeth being moved, or the base material compressing. The belt isn't changing length. Every car I've looked at has some backlash. Belt or gear. Gears can be easily trimmed to remove all slop.. but they lose efficiency when setup like that. So do belts. If you want some sort of spring in the drivetrain, that's easily tuned in using different diameter and length rods in the drive-train. But.. nobody does that. (they don't do it in racing either.. excepting in power steering gearboxes)

I don't think stretch, or backlash has any bearing on our conversation. But... torque might. I think that's the most believable story here. And why the "top end" tamiya uses a bevel drive on the motor instead of putting the motor parallel to the drive shaft.

Originally Posted by bd007 View Post
some just cry and not willing to pay. some would innovate.

wtcc's TT-02 KR
If that's the conclusion you're coming to from the topic here. You need to work on your reading skills.

​​​​​​​WTCC's car is awesome, it is however, not cheap, not simple, not easy. It's a great way to strap the best bits you can to a ruleset that states you must use a TT02 tub. I love his projects.
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Old 07-25-2019, 03:22 PM
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The backlash on a belt drive car should come mostly from the gear mesh between pinion and spur. With correct teeth profile design, there should be practically zero backlash coming from the timing belts and pulleys.

Have you ever tried shimming gears to the point where they have zero backlash? They would no longer be free moving at that point and efficiency would suffer by a significant amount. Not to mention the faster wear and tear from such a tighter gear mesh. Belt drive can maintain zero backlash, and is still almost as efficient as gear drive.
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Old 07-25-2019, 03:24 PM
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Ok this discussion is totally sterile. There are shaft-driven chassis, some cheap, some expensive. The offer is already far over the demand, so there is no new chassis.

Go for a TT02-RR:
  • Droop adjustment plate - Use shocks spacers
  • diff locking block - Ride Putty75 is the way
  • Fluid filled diff - INCLUDED
  • CVD's for the front ($32 for tamiya parts, $10 for yeah racing)
  • Spur adapter (INCLUDED)
  • heavy duty servo saver (INCLUDED)
  • aluminum motor mount (INCLUDED)
  • hard tub (why?)
  • threaded shocks (again why?)
  • aluminum drive shaft (INCLUDED)
  • upper deck (why why why?)
Conclusion, you can find a club racer for a reasonable price, now you want the bling, you have to pay for it, shaft or belt...
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Old 07-25-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Nerobro View Post
I'm .... careful.. on accessory purchases. :-)

Lets run an experiment? What would it take to get a TT02s to "advanced touring car" status. Lets assume you're ok with using shims on the shocks. You still lose out on droop adjustment.. though there are aftermarket plates for droop.
  • Droop adjustment plate - (I've seen them, but can't find one right now..)
  • diff locking block (or JB weld lock..) ($13 for the tamiya part, $2 for glueing it.)
  • Fluid filled diff ($32 for the tamiya part)
  • CVD's for the front ($32 for tamiya parts, $10 for yeah racing)
  • Spur adapter ($13 for tamiya parts, $9 for a proper spur, $5 for a proper pinion)
  • heavy duty servo saver ($13-30)
  • aluminum motor mount.
That's what I'd consider essential. Or about $150.

The following would be nice...
  • hard tub ($8)
  • threaded shocks ($22, for yeah racing)
  • aluminum drive shaft ($13 for yeah racing, this gets rid of "spring" in the driveline)
  • upper deck ($30)
So another $70 for the "nice stuff" And where are you at? That's right at $450. Buy a TB05.
First off, outside of Euro Truck, Iíd never even consider Tamiya as a option. Been a ghost brand for my time in hobby.

This is why Iíve become a fan of used. I had always meant to try my TC4 for USGT. Just as a curiosity, no matter what it ran it would not have changed my finishing position


I still donít know what droop does.



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Old 07-25-2019, 04:09 PM
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I don't to be condescendant, but you really should study what is droop and what it does to the car... It can really change your finishing position!
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Old 07-25-2019, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Airwave View Post
I don't to be condescendant, but you really should study what is droop and what it does to the car... It can really change your finishing position!
I fully embraced my unorthodox, and unconventional way with racing and practice. The group I raced with the gap was too much for me to realistically close. Two years I did 20 racedays. Only 3 classes so far F1, 17.5TC, USGT. Where the next lowest experienced driver had 15 years of racing. Small group but most started in late 80’s/early 90’s.

I stayed with simplified changes. Pinion/spur combination, shock/diff fluid. Then focus on consistency. I made the early mistake of being focused on speed in straight, but with our layout braking and acceleration were far more important.

For someone just stepping into racing. It’s an info overload, droop, tweak, camber, toe, ride height, FDR,.... Then there’s the opinions on bodies, and there different effects. And haven’t even turned a lap. Then there’s the whole new world of limited lane space( 8 feet seems wide till there’s 5+cars). For those of us that didn’t start on the racing side of hobby, just running in the limited space of a track alone is a big change.

I don’t dismiss the tuning part. Just don’t see it as the first thing to focus on for new people.

Didn’t mean to go off topic
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Old 07-25-2019, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Nerobro View Post
Howdy everybody,

There's a thread about recommending a dude a car. He's gonna be on unprepared surfaces, which really means "shaft drive". A couple times the TB05 were brought up. And the TT02. If the TC4 were still a production car, I'd be pushing that. But... alas, it's not.

Well the TT series cars, while neat and all, are really $30 of plastic $30 of motor and ESC, and a $30 body, with a $400 nice car fake it kit. So lets not talk about the TT02. The TB05, is a $300 car in the US. And while I don't think that's exorbitant, we have $100 belted touring cars. And $160 1/14 scale 4wd buggies. We should have a $100-200 nice shafty touring car.

So.. am I blind? or do we really not have a cheap, nice shaft drive touring car? Has the TC4's demise really meant that we're at the end?

Before I go, this is what I'd like to see:
  • Adjustable upper links. (camber)
  • Adjustable steering links. (toe)
  • Standard spur gears. (Gearing for VTA through mod..)
  • Gear diffs.
  • Long suspension arms.
  • Steel pivot pins.
Nice things to have:
  • Adjustable rear toe, sweep, pro and anti dive.
  • Flat battery mount, for modern lipos.
  • multiple upper link locations for roll center adjustment.
  • Standard suspension mounts for front sweep, pro and anti dive.
  • parts commonality with other popular cars.
  • flat chassis, for cheap aluminum, FRP, or carbon swaps.
These are still around. Its a budget version of the MR4-TC SD from early 2000's. I have heard it works really well.

https://www.amainhobbies.com/yokomo-...tc-sd9/p267795

https://www.redrc.net/2019/06/bjorn-...ng-series-rd5/


For those that have a TC4 and want to update the chassis with a modern design, this kit is also available.

https://kfrusa.com/products/kaizen-tc4-conversion-kit





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Old 07-25-2019, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Nerobro View Post
well, belts have one more interface than gears do. "each interface" has that hit. Belts have two pulleys for each end. Each belt to pulley interface has the torque hit. While a shaft only has the spur, and bevels. The belt has The spur, and four pulleys. Even single belt setups have the tension wheel that will add belt bending friction.


I'm so accustomed to low rpm and low power cars, I never considered that.
In addition to that, belts deform as they rotate and energy is lost there. It's a significant amount of resistance at low RPM - if you take the pinion off the motor and spin the wheels, a shaft car has much lower rolling resistance. I've heard the claim that as RPM increases, the shaft drive gear backlash reduces in efficiency more than belt does, which is why at higher speeds belt drive is supposedly more efficient. I'm not sure if that's accurate, but mod cars are overpowered so the efficiency isn't as important as the smooth power delivery you get with belts.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:01 AM
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I have a TB04R that I am looking to part with.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by RAL View Post
These are still around. Its a budget version of the MR4-TC SD from early 2000's. I have heard it works really well.

https://www.amainhobbies.com/yokomo-...tc-sd9/p267795
I had forgotten about those! I'd recommend that over some TT02 any day honestly. I sort of liked the RS4 sport 3 "creator edition" on paper but it comes pre-built... No thanks.
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Old 07-29-2019, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by NutDriver View Post
I have a TB04R that I am looking to part with.
Do you have pictures? Can you send it to me via PM? I'm interested.
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