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Old 01-14-2010, 07:48 AM   #1261
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Look. I don't want to impede on anyone's interests and after reading some time ago all these pages, I decided tuning silvercans is not for me. (back then I had my own stock motors to deal with. By the way, tuning stock motors explains a lot about tuning silvercans, so there you go, you can try it on a motor you can pull apart and when you understand what's going on, you can try on silvercans).

That being said, I think there are more important things to tune in a mini to go fast. Make sure you sort everything else first otherwise no matter how fast a silvercan you have, you won't be able to make use of its potential (or you might even trash it).

If you wanna buy a special silvercan, by all means (I am curious about them too, I have to say, but I always had more pressing priorities than that and now it looks mini is going to be raced with ezrun combos here) go for it. Let us know what you think too.
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:51 AM   #1262
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Sidecar, for some reason the e-mail function on this forum does not always work - I never got a message from you.

Best way for anyone to reach me is via e-mail at [email protected]. That gets checked several times a day and responses go out immediately.

BTW, for interested parties, the next production run of Red Dot silver can motors is scheduled for the week of January 25th. At this time we are already partly sold out through advance orders, so if you want one (or more), probably best to drop us a line before they are all gone.
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RED DOT MOTORS- Fastest Titan 12T and silver can 540 motors in the known galaxy!
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:51 PM   #1263
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Whats the best silver can esc? Does it make a big difference which one you use?

Thanks
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Old 01-24-2010, 06:54 PM   #1264
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Not really. These motors don't pull enough amps to really see a difference between one ESC and another. I do just fine with a 15+ year old brushed Tekin speed control and know others who use similarly aged equipment and are very satisfied.
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RED DOT MOTORS- Fastest Titan 12T and silver can 540 motors in the known galaxy!
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:08 PM   #1265
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I ran at our club race today with my M05 and got spanked by anther silver can. My car is usually pretty fast with its silver can, but today a guy with a Keyence esc just ran all over me. I'm not sure if he has a really fast silver can or if its the Keyence esc. I am still running the stock M05 Tamiya esc. Is the Tamiya equivalent to the Novaks Tekins and Keyence?
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Old 01-24-2010, 08:54 PM   #1266
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Originally Posted by J-VET View Post
I ran at our club race today with my M05 and got spanked by anther silver can. My car is usually pretty fast with its silver can, but today a guy with a Keyence esc just ran all over me. I'm not sure if he has a really fast silver can or if its the Keyence esc. I am still running the stock M05 Tamiya esc. Is the Tamiya equivalent to the Novaks Tekins and Keyence?
It wasn't the esc. If you are one of the Road Runners, rumor has it that there are a few Red Dots up there.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:34 PM   #1267
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So is a red dot an older model that they do not make any more or is it just a hard to get model? Either way I need one, Man was he fast.

Yes, it was at Camarillo
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Old 01-24-2010, 10:56 PM   #1268
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So is a red dot an older model that they do not make any more or is it just a hard to get model? Either way I need one, Man was he fast.

Yes, it was at Camarillo
Just look back a few posts and you'll see them.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:06 AM   #1269
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Thanks Granpa
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:47 AM   #1270
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So I have just read all 85 pages to this thread and come to a few conclusions.
1 I know now that I did not break in my motor properly.
2 The best motor gurus will share some info but keep the good secrets to themselves (and who can blame them)
3 I have a lot to learn about even the simplest break in procedures
4 Set up and driving skill are fundamental, motor is second to this
5 There is a lot of bs and bickering in this thread that is not pertinent to the original post and title.
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Originally Posted by TAMIYAMANUK View Post
hi guys am just woundering if there is anyway of tuning the motor in anyway possiable i.e opening the can,oils, sprays etc..... to make the motor go any faster.?

i have been reading the other fourms about motor dipping etc and i havent really made a differents to the performance.

any help will be much apresheated

cheers
I was hoping to read some tips and trick about breaking in and maintaining a silver can motor to get the best performance out of it. Instead I read about 75 pages of this is not legal, you must be cheating, that motor can't do that, blah blah blah. It was stated early in the thread that the advice being requested was for bashing and not racing.
There are still a lot of unanswered questions in this thread that were missed due to the bickering. 85 pages and nearly 5 years of posts and nobody could put up a list that people could agree on for starting points on how to break in and maintain a motor to get better performance. Not saying all the secret trick should be revealed just a simple list to get started. I realize that there are a lot of serious racers here but there are also a lot of club racers here that just want to have fun and be competitive.
I just started racing mini this year. Bought myself a used M03 and a new silver can motor. Raced it for the first time 2 weekends ago. I finished 1st in the c main and was bumped to the b main. Marshaled the next race then raced into the b main. I still finished with the same amount of laps. I know my motor is slower then most as I would watch them pass me on the back straight. Even the next guy was 2 laps minimum faster than me. He's a better drive but also has a faster silver can motor. I will try some of the tips and tricks described in the previous pages but I also had a hard time determining what was real advice and what was sarcasm. I would be much appreciated if someone would put together a basic list of no BS tips and tricks to help us club racers that want to have fun. Not all of us have the dino's or other specialized equipment that is mentioned in the previous pages either so if someone takes on the challenge of creating a list of break in and tuning procedures please keep it simple.
I plan on running a Hobbywing 35A 13T brushless system next year to simplify things. I just need help now.
By the way my motor has 2 heats and 2 mains on it along with maybe 15 minutes of run time in mu very small and cramped basement, so by the sound of it my motor is not completely broken in.
Thanks and sorry for the rant. Its a lot of pages and now 10 to 5 in the am and I am tired.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:04 AM   #1271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Rover View Post
I plan on running a Hobbywing 35A 13T brushless system next year to simplify things. I just need help now.
I entirely agree with your sentiment in the overall post. I'll keep this to only what I know and what has worked for me.

Firstly, the 540J motors have significant variances out of the box - they are not high precision pieces of electromechanical machinery. In a class with constrained gearing, like Mini, this poses big challenges. This is a major factor why Australian Mini racing standardised on a single brushless combo.

Anyway, my basic process, keeping with the spirit of club racing is this:
  • Run motor for 2 mins under clean water from a 3V battery source, generally two AA dry cells in series. Change water and do it again. This cleans up some of the gunk and helps get the brushes set.
  • Oil the bushings on each end with a light machine oil. Let it sit there overnight.
  • Install motor in car
  • The night before each run, oil the bushings. Roll the drivetrain to get the oil around the shaft.
  • Before each run (more so finals :-), put some comm drops on the commutator
  • After each meet, give the motor a spray with motor/electrical cleaner, drop of oil on the bushings and you're done
This will not give you a 19,000RPM screamer, but give you a hard working, long lasting and reliable form of propulsion. I've been racing 540 touring car for over a year and only replaced one motor, and this was because one of motor tabs got punched into the can when I took a sideways hit and dislodged the brush off the commutator. I win my share of club meets, but I'm no national A main guy.

Some other useful tips:
  • If you're gearing tall, get some cooling on the motor. A good heatsink and/or fan will help. The motors are quite resilient, but not invincible. Depending on your track and environs, this may not be an issue in Mini.
  • In any car, make sure the drivetrain is free. Easily overlooked - I've seen one local club member fry a few motors because of a bad bearing on a wheel axle. This will not only help your motor, but you will go faster as well
  • Good driving is also too easily underestimated. With a 540, you have to carry as much speed as you can around the track. A better line into a corner will give you more initial speed onto the straight and appear to make your car "faster". Practice, practice, practice with a well maintained car makes a world of difference

You won't catch someone whose silver cans are spinning faster than a Sport Tuned motor, but if you want to go down that path, then I think some of the posts in this thread will point you in the appropriate direction.
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:07 AM   #1272
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That being said, remember the best tip of them all. Start by buying five million gazillion motors and keep the best.

It's regretable but these motors are just cheapies and as such you can start with a serious advantage if you can select a good one out of the box.

One important factor I think above all is how well the bushings are aligned. Test with your fingers and if the rotor spins freely (if you can suspend the brushes somehow and spin it and check for endplay and alignemnt in the magnetic field even better). If you can figure out what's wrong, you can tap lightly with something to align them. Check your work on somehow (some battery chargers have a current readout. You can measure RPM with a handheld meter or again some chargers do it for you. If you're going up in RPM and down in current (keep conditions equal in respect to load) you're on the right track. That is a good start.

That is enough for me. I oil them, clean the comm after races with a home made tool (there's one you can buy, perhaps you've already seen it a few pages back but does the same job), wash off with buggy spray, then lube again. I don't even bother to run them in just run them with a bit of oil for a few minutes on the bench at low voltage and it's enough to seat the brushes. You're not going to be the fastest if anyone at your track is obssesive compulsive about tuning silvercans, but you're going to have a lot more fun than they.
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Last edited by niznai; 02-04-2010 at 07:28 AM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:05 AM   #1273
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Most of the stuff in the 2 previous posts are spot on. There are a few things that should be noted.

1. Fully 3/4 of the motors will be in a very narrow 2-300 rpm range. Too small for you to see on the track. There will be out of say 10 motors, 1, or if unlucky, 2 duds. The legendary super hot motor I've never come upon.

2. The latest 540J motors have a very soft brush and I've had to change break in procedures. On these motors, water dip at 2v for 20 to 30 sec. at a time, then change water. Try not to let the water get dirty. I've had some poor results if the water got too dirty.

3. Break in for me is when the brush makes full contact accross the comm. Some will water dip until the full face of the brush seats on the comm. I haven't found this to be of any significant benefit and being frugal, I'd rather wear the motor out in the car rather than under water.

4. Keep the motor clean, well oiled, and don't over heat it, and you should get many months of pleasure from your motor. Let it get hot and you will only get a few minutes.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:36 AM   #1274
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Thanks guys. This will help a lot. I will try to check my brushes (never done it on a silver can before) and have to go and buy some comm oil. Can I clean the motor with break cleaner? If I was to do that I know I should probably oil the bushings ASAP and the comm as well. Has anybody tried using Dry Lube? Its a dry silicone spray used like penetrating oil. I have seen similar products (like CowRC's MooLube) used on bearings and bushings before.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:58 AM   #1275
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Brake cleaning fluid is good (is actually the same thing as buggy spray only cheaper). Yeah, oil is going to be absolutely cleaned out too, so lube the bushings. I never used anything on the comm just keep it clean as explained before.

Just think of the old bushed stock motors. Whatever you did there carries over to the silvercan as well. Doing it is a bit more difficult, but the principle is the same. Bush alignment, brush alignment, etc. etc.
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