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Old 11-28-2008, 08:55 PM   #1126
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Hey Doc you say you have sold a few Red dot motors down here in New Zealand were they the race spec versions or the 15ks versions?
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:57 PM   #1127
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I'm gonna race TCS this year, but this is the crap I'm not looking forward to.
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:12 AM   #1128
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"Whoa is me! For all intensive purposes, the ironing is delicious, morans!!"

Dude, your signature kills me! Good work!

Jim
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:30 AM   #1129
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Low_E, check out post #992 (use the search function to find it) for the lowdown on Red Dot motors. My e-mail is [email protected] if you want to chat. If you direct a fan at the slave motor it won't overheat, and at such a low voltage they don't really get that warm anyway.

Toolmannz2, thus far the motors we have shipped down there have either been full-race ones, or ones produced to meet a specific club's power/amp draw/rpm guidelines. Some of those are similar to the power output of a 15K due to the club specs.
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:04 PM   #1130
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I'm gonna race TCS this year, but this is the crap I'm not looking forward to.
Then build your car stick a kit motor in it and just be pleased with what ever results you get in the race and remember no bitching cuz you said you were not looking forward to this crap therefore if you don't try your hardest to go fast then you will be content with average to marginal results. I just love people who want to go fast like the "Fast" guys but are not willing to pay the price or go through the hard work.
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:46 PM   #1131
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if a motor has a significant difference between running in the normal direction and reversed polarity, this means motor timing was advanced in one direction, making this motor illegal for 540 class.

yes a motor can be non-cranked nor opened, but timing still advanced, and advancing timing (via magnetism) is illegal i would think. (cranking is done to advance timing).

i somehow believe "freak" motors is just a smokescreen to justify the performance enhancement of motors whose magnets have been tampered (zap, unzapped) to change timing.

ive seen this done in club level racing, and for some reason people fool themselves into believing a magnetically tampered 540 is still legal yet cranking is not.

please let me know if i am mistaken about the MAGNETISM form of cheating. maybe this is why rpm limits are now used to determine if your motor is legal or not.
You've obviously given this some and have some knowledge about making motors perform, but having said that, it is also apparant that you still have a lot to learn. I'm not trying to be insulting, cause I know where you're coming from, having been at that same point myself. These silver cans are mysterious things and defy conventional logic. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, to quote an old saw.

This discussion has been done before and the consensus seems to be that if you don't physically alter the mechanical components of the motor, it's legal. I know that cause I was taking your side of the discussion. The only thing it accomplished was to offend a some very nice people.

Four major elements are necessary for a fast race car, full size or R/C. The car has to built right (that includes aero), set up well, driven skillfully, and it has to have a DAMNED FAST MOTOR. When rpm limits are placed, they are doing this to eliminate the motor from the equation. It's not necessarily stating that the guys with fast motors are cheating. The argument for doing this is to "level" the playing field. By extension then, are the guys who always have car that handles great cheating or the guy whose car has the smoothest drive train etc also cheating???? They too have "secrets".

If you truly want to level the playing field and make it about just who is the best driver, everyone could meet for a race and play video game. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.
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Old 11-30-2008, 12:42 AM   #1132
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If you truly want to level the playing field and make it about just who is the best driver, everyone could meet for a race and play video game. Doesn't sound like much fun to me.
Exactly. Everyone who knows me, knows I am a mediocre driver at best. But I still go to the big meetings, like the Racing Lines international and the Drivers Series, because I like a challenge and know that when I get there, there will be someone who is of a similar skill level as me and I will be able to have great friendly battles with them for the weekend. Its what makes racing fun, when you can go up against someone who is similar skill and beat them. Or when you are fighting to stay in front. Remember, this is the only way that you are going to get to that level. Everyone starts somewhere, and to go to these meetings and to be constantly fighting to keep your place is good. Because it improves your passing, your cornering and your overall lap time. And if it improves all this, it must be improving your driving.

I think, also, the reason that people post in this thread, some of the time, is not to find a way to go fast, but to even the level between drivers, making it more easy to compete with them and therefore improving their driving skill.
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Old 11-30-2008, 02:34 AM   #1133
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Wouldn't the ultimate way to level the field among drivers be to have everyone running exactly the same setup?

Then, in order to win, you'd have to be a better driver, and not either be privy to secrets or purchase your victory.

I see a place for the tweaked motors, and I even want one, but spec racing should be fair and equal as far as equipment goes.

Jim
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Old 11-30-2008, 03:20 AM   #1134
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hi Granpa,

thanks for your comments. would like to hear your thoughts on below as motor tuners keep silent on their thoughts of the legality of altering the magnetic field (which may be though of as a non mechanical alteration).

would enhancing or modifying the magnetic field, done without opening can, be considered legal?

granted there might be other secrets to a fast motor, but would like to hear opinions on above question, and if those 25K motors have had magnetic modification done to them.
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:27 AM   #1135
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Aside from the obvious:
a) you have, as Granpa said, obviously given this some thought, and
b) it is clear you are not truly a newbie, but instead someone with an axe to grind and a screen name to hide behind,

I think Granpa- who, despite his modesty is, in my opinion, one of the half-dozen best silver can motor tuners in the hobby, bless his heart- has said it quite well:

Quote:
"This discussion has been done before and the consensus seems to be that if you don't physically alter the mechanical components of the motor, it's legal. I know that cause I was taking your side of the discussion. The only thing it accomplished was to offend a some very nice people."
If you have a problem with the current silver can rules run in your races series, then I suggest you take it up with the race or series director and see if your opinion is popular enough to get them changed.

I should also point out that, to the best of my knowledge, no Red Dot motor has EVER been DQ'd from a competition, and heaven knows they have been closely examined.
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Old 11-30-2008, 06:55 AM   #1136
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rccardr

I sent you an e-mail @ [email protected]

If you have any more of the red dot silver cans I would like to buy one for my son please.

If you have any avail you can Pm me with a paypal address.

thanks you.

Mike
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Old 11-30-2008, 07:21 AM   #1137
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no axe to grind, just wanted your opinions, is a magnetically altered 540 legal?
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Old 11-30-2008, 11:45 AM   #1138
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no axe to grind, just wanted your opinions, is a magnetically altered 540 legal?
In fact that question has been asked and answered. The answer is that anything that your particular racing venue allows is legal. It isn't a satisfying answer, but is the only one that is relevant or material. In the TCS racing series, they seem to allow each site a bit of leeway here to accomodate their particular circumstances. It's a practical matter as not each venue is able to provide enough people, equipment etc to "police" to the same level. At the Nationals, for example, there were at least 10-12 people in tech and registration. Not many venues have that luxury.

At one time, I supported your position, but have since altered my thinking for other reasons, some which I will state here. At the time I was in your camp, I had only participated in one TCS event and pitted in a couple of others. Since then, I've run in a couple of others and have had numerous occasions to discuss your point and others with the people who put on these events for ALL of us to enjoy. Needless to say, they raised any number of reasons for their point of view, but for the most part they were based on the tech and number of people required.

A long answer, to a simple question, but IMO the correct one. Hope this helps cause this did not satisfy me until I reflected on the problem for a bit
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Old 11-30-2008, 12:24 PM   #1139
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Wouldn't the ultimate way to level the field among drivers be to have everyone running exactly the same setup?

Then, in order to win, you'd have to be a better driver, and not either be privy to secrets or purchase your victory.

I see a place for the tweaked motors, and I even want one, but spec racing should be fair and equal as far as equipment goes.

Jim
Actually, the ultimate way to make it about driving is to eliminate the car entirely. You could do this with a video game. Bad joke , but true.

However, let me forward this dissenting opinion. No Spec racing class that makes you run the same car, the same set up, the same motor will survive for any length of time. In a class like that only a few would be competitive. Let's face facts here and admit that only a few have the talent to be a truly good driver, no matter how much the rest of us hate to admit it.

Another point that might be worth your consideration is that there are number of racers who run towards the front or at the front because of other skills such as set up, building and motor tuning skills. These skills can be learned by anyone and developed to a high level by anyone. I believe that what is fun about the hobby is the improvements you can make in all departments. I also believe that truly fast driving can't be learned, it's a gift. The biggest kick I get is in beating a better driver cause my set up is better. I'm also not above rubbing it in either. A win like that can keep me going for a long time as Swifty will attest to.
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Old 11-30-2008, 12:40 PM   #1140
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Actually, the ultimate way to make it about driving is to eliminate the car entirely. You could do this with a video game. Bad joke , but true.

However, let me forward this dissenting opinion. No Spec racing class that makes you run the same car, the same set up, the same motor will survive for any length of time. In a class like that only a few would be competitive. Let's face facts here and admit that only a few have the talent to be a truly good driver, no matter how much the rest of us hate to admit it.

Another point that might be worth your consideration is that there are number of racers who run towards the front or at the front because of other skills such as set up, building and motor tuning skills. These skills can be learned by anyone and developed to a high level by anyone. I believe that what is fun about the hobby is the improvements you can make in all departments. I also believe that truly fast driving can't be learned, it's a gift. The biggest kick I get is in beating a better driver cause my set up is better. I'm also not above rubbing it in either. A win like that can keep me going for a long time as Swifty will attest to.
Agreed. Learning setup skills is one of the major positives of the Spec Classes.
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