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Old 12-27-2007, 04:23 PM   #781
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I am not experienced in tuning 540s. But logic would tell me to think of the motor as a "full circle" of power, so what goes in must come out, in the best possible way.

Keeping the commutator as clean as possible between races, without gumming it up with excess oil/lubricant etc is going to help, as will cooling. Even accurate gear mesh should not be overlooked when dealing with such smaller power compared to stock. Wire and solder joints must be totally A class stuff. The 540s brushes are pretty hard, so if they can pass current through them any quicker that may yeald some extra torque or rpm.

No one in stock races with hard brushes and there are good reasons for that.

A quality 540 is all but wasted though if:

a) you havn't got good cells to power it

b) you are not consistent enough

c) your car setup is trash and or the transmission is binding, or just simply with un-needed drag. Lighter oil in the bearings, that kind of thing.

d) you've geared it wrong.

Think about it with logic.... There is only so much you can do to a motor, the rest is down to the thumbs controlling it and its surrounding nature. Dont look at the motor as the be all and end all because its not.
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Old 12-27-2007, 06:12 PM   #782
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Old 12-27-2007, 06:47 PM   #783
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Thank ya for the tips guys, I do have to always remind myself that this hobby is a constant learning progress. I pride myself on my stock motor setups where you can rip the motor down and get it perfect. These can motors I must say I'm new at.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:21 PM   #784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tc3team View Post
I am not experienced in tuning 540s. But logic would tell me to think of the motor as a "full circle" of power, so what goes in must come out, in the best possible way.

Keeping the commutator as clean as possible between races, without gumming it up with excess oil/lubricant etc is going to help, as will cooling. Even accurate gear mesh should not be overlooked when dealing with such smaller power compared to stock. Wire and solder joints must be totally A class stuff. The 540s brushes are pretty hard, so if they can pass current through them any quicker that may yeald some extra torque or rpm.

No one in stock races with hard brushes and there are good reasons for that.

A quality 540 is all but wasted though if:

a) you havn't got good cells to power it

b) you are not consistent enough

c) your car setup is trash and or the transmission is binding, or just simply with un-needed drag. Lighter oil in the bearings, that kind of thing.

d) you've geared it wrong.

Think about it with logic.... There is only so much you can do to a motor, the rest is down to the thumbs controlling it and its surrounding nature. Dont look at the motor as the be all and end all because its not.
I agree with almost all of your post, except to those references not pertinent to a Tamiya MO3 Or 4 series car. What has me confused is your assumption that our preoccupation with improving the performance of our silver can would make anyone believe "the motor as the be all end all". The reason that most of the posts are on motors and related subjects is that this is THE SILVER CAN thread. Also, a race car, r/c or otherwise, is a "full circle" of chassis set up, with it's myriad of subtle nuances, tires and inserts, and motor.
The guys I race with all know how to set up their cars and they can all drive. If you're down on power, you're not in the hunt. Fortunately for me, we're all relatively inexperienced at tuning these motors. I've learned a couple of things and can get most motors to improve 1-2,000 rpms. There are guys who post on this thread that can do almost unbelievable things with these motors and any time I see one of their posts I pay attention. Stick around, you and I have a lot to learn about the inscrutable Mr. Mabuchi and his maddening SILVER CAN.
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Old 12-28-2007, 01:23 AM   #785
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Part of me forgot I was in the silver can tips/tricks area so apologies for that

All i'm kinda saying is before you try and fix your motor up well, make sure your other areas are A1 too, just like you wouldnt fix a new engine to a beat up transmission.

Not everyone here is a seasoned pro, so I just thought i'd make them wake up and smell the coffee
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Last edited by tc3team; 12-28-2007 at 01:23 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:38 PM   #786
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Howzit guys,

Just a reminder of an old post I placed a good while back. By the way, shaft is better for a 540 motor ... also try spools & 1-way diffs.

* Make sure to get your 'of the shelve' motor specs (dyno) before your start
* Get a container with lukewarm-to-hot soapy (sunlight liquid) water to soften the brushes
* Run the motor submerged at 2v for about 30mins
* Stuff rubbing-compound in-between the comm+brushes, run motor at 2v. Repeat this until the brushes are fully seated. This should not take longer than 30mins
* Then take brasso in an old oil bottle (or syringe) and squirt the comm & bushings continuously for about another 30mins
* Submerge the motor again to cleanout all the icky black stuff again
* Change icky water for clean luke-to-hot water and submerge motor again to clean properly.
* Blow dry the motor with air (compressor/canned). Beware of canned motor cleaner of these motor's bushings, as I they dry out easy and cause drag
* Oil bushings with good (any brand) thin oil
* You can use comm-drops, but in my opinion is a 'nice2have' only
Spec your motor again after this process; take on the track and gear high. In my Pro4, I rolled to +-50mm depending of track, using a 60T spur.
If you’re lucky to have a dyno, you'll notice huge increase in torque after the above exercise and maybe a bit more rpm's. As mentioned before in this tread, driving style is key and keeping your car's momentum continuous is vital.
Additionally, I've cutout a glove for the motor out of a chamois (sheep skin) cloth, with the vents open. Before hitting the track, I soak the glove in water and then use canned intro-freeze to ice up the motor.
These days, I see the guys use a pc-peltier-cooler contraption...I haven't used it myself as yet.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,
Vance.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:54 PM   #787
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thanks for all replies.

where can i get the best oil for the rear bearings .
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:10 PM   #788
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Ok here are "some" tips of what I have learned with these motors.

1. Take NEW motor out of box
2. Remember to follow rule #1 thats the most important
3. Apply brasso to both ends of bushings and run at 3-4 volts for 15 minutes while motor is standing on one end frequently applying brasso.
4. Flip motor over and run again for 15 minutes frequently applying brasso to other end of motor.
5. Repeat steps 3 and 4
6. Run motor at 1-2 volts submerged under water untill brushes are JUST fully seated on the comm. Again JUST untill the brushes are seated on the comm.
7. I tap the motor on the concrete to seat the bushings both can side and shaft side and have picked up 200-700 rpm this way alone.
8. Then to get the extra 1,500 -3,000 RPM I d g dl de 3 [ e 230-es s 3pkr e- s 45 45=- x / n 29 56 0 t v h j= jn y-5 5- h.
9. Clean motor and ready to race
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:35 PM   #789
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I may be wrong here, but the new Johnsons seem to have a softer brush than the older ones. The new ones have an orange colored brush. If you water dip one of these for 30 min., you won't have any brushes left. If you must water dip, do it at 1 volt or less and check every min. or so and change the water before it gets grey. Best way to ruin a motor is to water dip at a higher voltage.
The older Johnsons had a red brick colored brush which was much harder. These took much longer to seat the brushes. If I'm wrong about this, my apologies. Perhaps the real motor men could enlighten us.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:32 PM   #790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Granpa View Post
I may be wrong here, but the new Johnsons seem to have a softer brush than the older ones. The new ones have an orange colored brush. If you water dip one of these for 30 min., you won't have any brushes left. If you must water dip, do it at 1 volt or less and check every min. or so and change the water before it gets grey. Best way to ruin a motor is to water dip at a higher voltage.
The older Johnsons had a red brick colored brush which was much harder. These took much longer to seat the brushes. If I'm wrong about this, my apologies. Perhaps the real motor men could enlighten us.

Yes your right...The new silver can motor are 540J and their brushes are very soft compare the old silver can...The J motor are great for GT3 sedan and the old silver can are perfect for mini....The J motor have great Torque and fair RPM....
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:04 PM   #791
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Agreed. New motor = softer brush = faster breakin.
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:47 AM   #792
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Guys,
This may look stupid,but i had add some epoxy on the arm nearly equal of amount,(between the pole wire)the rpm jump from 19000 to 22000rpm.
The only problem is,not a perfect balance arm.but it's legal,right
any comment????

Thanks
Cheers
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Old 12-29-2007, 06:37 AM   #793
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I dunno how you guys get so much out of these motors..

I have tried everything listed in this thread on a few new motors, and dont get them to go any more than 16800 rpm, they show 16200 rpm new on my motor checker. amp draw goes from 1.18 to 1.25. How you guys can get 20000 + rpm is beyond me..
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Old 12-29-2007, 07:18 AM   #794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James khoo View Post
Guys,
This may look stupid,but i had add some epoxy on the arm nearly equal of amount,(between the pole wire)the rpm jump from 19000 to 22000rpm.
The only problem is,not a perfect balance arm.but it's legal,right
any comment????

Thanks
Cheers
Here is how I'd interpret the rules for adding epoxy:

ROAR would be illegal. 8.5.5.1 says "No modifications are allowed that require disassembly or internal work on a fixed end bell stock motor. This includes re-balancing, re-forming the can, re-epoxying, adding ball bearings, and modification of the brush hood system, removing the endbell, and adding or removal of material or parts."
see CSiels post at http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...99#post3963099

Australian (www.aarcmcc.org) would be illegal: 4.5.2 says "No modifications are allowed. (Capacitors and Diodes may be used.)"
see r0adrunn3r post at http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...03#post3965003

Tamiya TCS would be legal. Their rule is open for Silver Can (just use 1 of 4 approved motors) and an Amp/RPM limit for Black Can.

Note: While TCS rules don't forbid cranking the comm either, it would be extremely frowned on at a TCS race and you would be viewed as a cheater by all of your fellow racers; I think adding exoxy at a TCS would be the same way.

I think as racers in this forum we have concluded for TCS that things like cranking, opening the can, or I'd think adding epoxy is unethical and shouldn't be done even if Tamiya doesn't post a specific rule against it.
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Old 12-29-2007, 09:11 AM   #795
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could someone please let me know what silver can 540 motors would be avalable from a hobbyshop or some other source that have a decent magnet feild that would allow for good brakes?
i want to put some silver can motors in my boys off road trucks but the ones i have now i got on ebay a few years ago and they simply dont have any braking power. i dont care about the fastest motors and if they need to have a flat made on the shaft that is no problem either. thanks in advance....
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