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Old 12-10-2007, 01:54 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by joe of loath View Post
i think going inside the can is tampering. so twisting the comm is against the rules, but running the motor in is not.
Yes, but that is just an opinion and one that I concur with. However, that being said, there is no way to get a 20+ motor by just breaking it in IMHO. So let me rephrase the question in another way. What is illegal and where in the TCS rules does it say so. This is a very simple question and none of the brilliant minds who have been posting here have ventured an answer. Is thiis the speed secret????? Damn near anything is legal as long as you don't overdo it??????
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:16 PM   #647
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im not sure about TCS, but for our V12 oval the BRCA say, motors must be mabuchi rs540sh or the v14 only and must remain unopened. external motor bearings or fine pitch grears gears are not allowed. No physical intenal alterations to the motor brushes or cranking the comm are allowed.
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Old 12-10-2007, 04:06 PM   #648
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I've got a Johnson that runs 22k+ at 7.2v with nothing but in car running and an occasional cleaning.
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Yes, but that is just an opinion and one that I concur with. However, that being said, there is no way to get a 20+ motor by just breaking it in IMHO. So let me rephrase the question in another way. What is illegal and where in the TCS rules does it say so. This is a very simple question and none of the brilliant minds who have been posting here have ventured an answer. Is thiis the speed secret????? Damn near anything is legal as long as you don't overdo it??????
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:28 PM   #649
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I've got a Johnson that runs 22k+ at 7.2v with nothing but in car running and an occasional cleaning.
You are a very lucky man. Have you ever had another one that performs like that. Let's be honest folks, no one has still answered my original question. No one that I race with has gotten 20+ at 7.2 volts by just running it in a car. I'm not trying to be argumentative, but it's curious no one has answered a very simple query. Short of taking a can apart, what's legal and what's not. We have rules in our own group also, but that's what we've agreed to amoung ourselves. I'm not the greatest driver and have no aspirations of my own, but a few of the guys I race with are. I hate to see them working at a disadvantage if they are operating under certain assumptions that are not valid nationally.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:46 PM   #650
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Have you guys using lipo packs for the silver can motors???
How does it fair as far lipo against nimh is concerned well besides its durability and repeated usage.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:49 PM   #651
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Checked last night,my Johnson motor only put out 16800rpm at 7.2v.
it this normal???
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:26 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by Swift and Sleek View Post
Have you guys using lipo packs for the silver can motors???
How does it fair as far lipo against nimh is concerned well besides its durability and repeated usage.
I do...you have to gear it up more to make up for the lower voltage, but it runs pretty well. You can run a LOOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG time with a silver can and a 4800.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:42 PM   #653
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Checked last night,my Johnson motor only put out 16800rpm at 7.2v.
it this normal???
That's on the low side for a Johnson. You didn't say whether the comm was clean. If not you should pick up some rpms by cleaning. The # of rpms will depend on how dirty it was. You also didn't say whether the brushes were fully run in or not. If it's brand new and is a Johson with the orange brushes, that's about right.
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:30 PM   #654
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That's on the low side for a Johnson. You didn't say whether the comm was clean. If not you should pick up some rpms by cleaning. The # of rpms will depend on how dirty it was. You also didn't say whether the brushes were fully run in or not. If it's brand new and is a Johson with the orange brushes, that's about right.


Thanks mate,will try to get some motor cleaner on it,I also got a Tamiya sport Tune Black motor,it put out 24450 rpm at 7.2v.
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:50 PM   #655
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Thanks mate,will try to get some motor cleaner on it,I also got a Tamiya sport Tune Black motor,it put out 24450 rpm at 7.2v.
Procedure for cleaning a comm is the following: Put some Brasso metal polish in a plastic squeeze bottle with a needle tip. Squeeze a small amount of brasso on the comm. I put a pinion on the motor and roll the pinion on a towel placed on my bench top. This is easier than rotating the motor by hand. Flush out he motor very thoroughly with motor spray, tho plain water works almost as well. Dry and oil and you are ready to go. Just spraying with motor spray helps some, but it's better to polish the comm.
By the way, that's a pretty decent Black can
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:27 AM   #656
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My best guess is there is a particular way of breaking in the brushes to allow for advanced timing in the brushes. Maybe some kind of way to put pressure on them in the right direction as they are broken in...possibly bending the copper springs....That's what I would guess. I can't imagine being able to produce 20k+ motors over and over without playing with the brushes in some way. And the answer is yes...I have a couple 20k+ motors...I'm just not sure how or why? lol
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:44 AM   #657
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My best guess is there is a particular way of breaking in the brushes to allow for advanced timing in the brushes. Maybe some kind of way to put pressure on them in the right direction as they are broken in...possibly bending the copper springs....That's what I would guess. I can't imagine being able to produce 20k+ motors over and over without playing with the brushes in some way. And the answer is yes...I have a couple 20k+ motors...I'm just not sure how or why? lol
Well, if all you are doing is running them in your car, would you consider selling your car??? Look, you and I are both not stupid. You can't get 20k+ motors without advancing the timing in one way or the other. What I asked was, is this legal??????? You're the only one who was any where near the Question I asked. Let me ask again for those who did not understand my original question----Is advancing the timing legal?????????? I think not, but there is no simple way to catch those who do advance the timing. I guess it's a moral question and that's not going to bother those who choose to justify it to themselves as it is legal.
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Old 12-11-2007, 09:58 AM   #658
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From what i understand advancing the timing is achieved by twisting the stack on the armature. No, for TCS this is not legal. The best way to catch it is to put it on a motor checker such as the INDI Dyno, Orion motor checker etc. A normal "legal" silver can regardless of it being 2 slot 4 slot etc will pull anywhere from .95-1.3 amps at 3 volts. Supposedly the cranked motors will pull much more amps at the same voltage.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:44 AM   #659
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Really any cranking is easy to spot if you/me/tech is looking for it.

Just look in the vent holes with a flashlight or inspect the endbell, don't need a dyno for that. Sloppy crankers are easy to spot.

If people are nervous about a fast johnson motor, pre-tech it to make sure it looks legal. Missing a race due to tech would not be fun.
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Old 12-11-2007, 10:49 AM   #660
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Quote:
A normal "legal" silver can regardless of it being 2 slot 4 slot etc will pull anywhere from .95-1.3 amps at 3 volts. Supposedly the cranked motors will pull much more amps at the same voltage.
I beg to differ with you. I have a four hole motor that I have had for over 15 years. I have never tweaked, twisted, cranked, or in plain words - cheated to make the motor faster.

Quote:
You can't get 20k+ motors without advancing the timing in one way or the other.
This past weekend I had a friend put it on his dyno. By just keeping the motor clean and well oiled, the motor was pulling 1.7 amps at 5 volts with an RPM of 16,000. If you do the math and add another 2.2 volts that puts the RPM's around 23,000.

So, yes you can get 20k+ out of a motor with a little bit of love and no cheating.
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