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Old 12-07-2007, 02:59 PM   #631
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I have two Four Slotters that I would be will to sell, if anyone is interested.


As far as the topic at hand. I have been playing with Silver Can Powered Minis for fives years and a GT3 for one year. Every year I have learned something new every year(Finding the right tire/insert combo to work for you not what the other guy is running). Also it helps to know the right people that are willing to help you out. I look at the GT3 and Mini as a "Spec motor class." The only way you will take the motor game out is, hate to say it, Brushless. You will always have a "battery war" with them being change every couple months. There again you can have a spec Lipo power. The guys that have been playing with the Silver Cans the longest will probably always be the fastest.

We as Racers always look for ways to make cars run faster! That is what racing is about.

Just my thoughts
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:09 PM   #632
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dragracer72nova I have two Four Slotters that I would be will to sell, if anyone is interested.
Dave, bring them along on Tuesday and I will take them both.
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Old 12-07-2007, 07:54 PM   #633
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I've never looked at GT3 or Mini as a Spec class. There's another class for that, and it's called Spec.

I'm a racer- a serious, hard working, scupulously honest racer. That means I stay up late at night looking for every teeny advantage I can find that falls within the rules.

Doesn't make any difference what kind of motor we run in these cars, the fast guys will be fast and the rest of us will be in the lower Mains. I certainly wasn't surprised at who made the A at Mini Mayhem, or at the TCS Nats...heck, I made a list of the likely suspects before I flew out there. Great drivers, every one of them. And another six or eight right below them in the B who would have been equally appropriate members of the A had one of the slightly faster guys stumbled a little.

Look, this isn't a motor war, or a battery war, or an ESC war, or a tire war, or a setup war. It's an EVERYTHING war.

That's why they call it...racing.
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:59 PM   #634
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My conscience is clear I bet theirs is not.
I honestly dont think a true cheater(same thing as a liar) has a conscience worth mentioning anyway, so they really dont care.

Doc is right though, war is war regardless with true competitive racing. There are still plenty of other areas to gain an advantage. For instance, the main infamous local cheater has slotted the chassis to fit huge pinions in one of his M-03s. He was dumb enough to brag about it at one point though, so now everyone expects it. Even if he is legal though, everyone assumes he's cheating, & it just puts a damper on the atmosphere. We've tossed around the hand out idea in the past, even though our series is supposed to be "for fun"

Sorry guys... I dont mean to turn this thread into a "woe is me" fest!

Back to the main topic at hand, I would like to add that some of the best silver cans that I have owned were totally broken in over time from normal use & had NO break in or tweaks done before using them. They just kept getting better with age
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Old 12-08-2007, 07:12 AM   #635
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as someone else said in a previous post, silver cans get better with age because the comm slips lightly, so it advances the timing. i now have a motor with timing approaching that of a black can because it was used in a drill for 6 years. i have nothing to compare it to but its pretty fast. i might buy a new one just to compare actually. anyone know where i can buy job lots (10 or so) in the UK?
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Old 12-08-2007, 10:28 AM   #636
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as someone else said in a previous post, silver cans get better with age because the comm slips lightly, so it advances the timing. i now have a motor with timing approaching that of a black can because it was used in a drill for 6 years. i have nothing to compare it to but its pretty fast. i might buy a new one just to compare actually. anyone know where i can buy job lots (10 or so) in the UK?
How does one measure the timing on an electric motor? Is it simple to do or does it require a specialized equipment? Does the "comm slip slightly" with use. If it does how do you measure it? Can it be done with an ohm meter and a degree wheel? If so, what's the procedure?
These may be simple and dumb questions to some, but are total mysteries to others like me.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:11 AM   #637
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you can tell, because it goes faster in one direction than the other. open up and old motor and twist the comm about 8 degrees anticlockwise, then run it both ways i don't think theres any way of measuring it without complex maths or opening it up. i think the comm slips from friction with the brushes and the glue getting slightly softer as it heats up.
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:10 PM   #638
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you can tell, because it goes faster in one direction than the other. open up and old motor and twist the comm about 8 degrees anticlockwise, then run it both ways i don't think theres any way of measuring it without complex maths or opening it up. i think the comm slips from friction with the brushes and the glue getting slightly softer as it heats up.
Everything you say may be true. I just believe there must be some "simple" way to measure this and was wondering if anyone had a procedure to actually measure this. I'd also like to know what criteria racers are using to determine what is a legal way to advance the timing. In other words whats legal and what's not. I personally feel"cranking" is illegal, but are other methods that don't jam the armature or stack and twisting the shaft legal??? Cheating is not in my nature, but I will do anything that is still legal
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:17 PM   #639
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i guess the only other way is to run in the motor ANTICLOCKWISE. most people seem to run it clockwise, and that would mean the timing is decreased (meaning it goes faster in reverse.) if anyone can give me a reason for breaking in the motor backwards it would clear it up a bit...
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Old 12-08-2007, 02:03 PM   #640
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I honestly dont think a true cheater(same thing as a liar) has a conscience worth mentioning anyway, so they really dont care.
Sad as it is, probalby not.

The War description seems to sum up racing.

I do like the grabbag idea or the cost of a motor protest idea. As long as 1 guy does not get protested 5 times thus losing all his motors... lol
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Old 12-08-2007, 04:30 PM   #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe of loath View Post
i guess the only other way is to run in the motor ANTICLOCKWISE. most people seem to run it clockwise, and that would mean the timing is decreased (meaning it goes faster in reverse.) if anyone can give me a reason for breaking in the motor backwards it would clear it up a bit...
I know people in England racing Mardave cars turn the axle around from time to time, to get an advantage of the fact (?) that the brushes are worn in the direction the motor runs.. (not shure how to explain...) I've heard something about the worn brushes creating a kind of false timing, so when you have rund the motor for a certain time, it will actually run faster the other way..
(I might be wrong.. so feel free to correct me here.. )
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Old 12-09-2007, 08:38 AM   #642
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I know people in England racing Mardave cars turn the axle around from time to time, to get an advantage of the fact (?) that the brushes are worn in the direction the motor runs.. (not shure how to explain...) I've heard something about the worn brushes creating a kind of false timing, so when you have rund the motor for a certain time, it will actually run faster the other way..
(I might be wrong.. so feel free to correct me here.. )
maybe my drill ran the motor in reverse then? i think its because the brushes wear down i cant explain it so i'll draw a pic. i saw this on the brushes of a really old 370 motor i dissasembled. i cranked the com and it ran really fast (but i have no car to run it in) the sticky out bit on the brushes, in reverse of the way it runs normally will simulate advance the timing slightly.
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Silver Can Motor Tips/Tricks-brushs.jpg  
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:25 AM   #643
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Can anyone clarify what is legal and what is not!!!!!!! Everyone says that they are legal, but what is that. Is it just some understanding that I've not been privy to??? Maybe I missed it in the TCS Rules, but it doesn't seem to be spelled out.
Am I posting on the wrong thread???
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:32 AM   #644
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i think going inside the can is tampering. so twisting the comm is against the rules, but running the motor in is not.
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Old 12-10-2007, 12:34 PM   #645
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yep in mardave oval we do turn the motors around from time to time to get a bit more ive never done it myself though but seen people do it but they never get alot more, still cant touch me down the straight All i do when i get a new motor is break in at 2v for 30mins, spray, lube, fit. Then just lube it before each race with a spray after each meeting. I have tried water (was a bit worried about that) i spent 2 hours with brasso and cotton buds and a head torch polishing the comm and it didnt go any faster than the week before. Mardave have started selling comm cleaner for them now which im going to test for friday. The only way ive made it go any faster than the other week is with fresh cells with high av and low internal resistance. I usually run 4 packs for two 13 week seasons then get new ones and let the new guys have the old ones there still quick, but when your as close as you are in oval that extra bit always helps
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