R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-07-2007, 08:35 AM   #616
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: south africa
Posts: 98
Default 540 roll out help

gentlemen
advise needed on the fastest or best roll out on foam tyres 64mm on a johnstone 540 motor please
thanks
minnesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 09:32 AM   #617
Tech Elite
 
razzor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Durban, South Africa
Posts: 2,810
Default

Minnesh roll out is relative to the type of track you run on.
For touring we have used from 40mm - 45mm on tight to med tracks and i have seen guys run as high as 47/48mm on fast flowing tracks where you carry a lot of speed but motors running these roll outs over heat fast.
The sweet spot seems to be around 43 - 45mm.
Hope this helps.
__________________
Casterracing ZX1.5R
casterracing EX-1 Pro, SP Silver Arrow
TOP Racing Scythe, SP 17.5, SP GT Pro 2.0
TOP Racing Scythe, SP 4.5 V2, Hobbywing Xerun 120SD 2.0
TOP Racing Scythe, SP 13.5, Hobbywing Xerun 120SD 2.0
razzor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 09:32 AM   #618
Tech Elite
 
joe of loath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bristol, England, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,857
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckWick357 View Post
can't do that i am all for pushing the rules but to just flat out cheat i have issue with.
i guess its bending the rules a little bit too much!

i have a johnson 540 out of an old drill, and after 6 years of use it runs about 25% faster anticlockwise. i ran it in for 5 mins in water (hard brushes) to make better contact, and it seems to be quite a fast motor. i've seen faster. although i dont have a motor tester OR a car to try it out in...
__________________
HPI E-Firestorm - Tamiya TA05 racer (carbon chassis, 10.5 brushless etc) - LRP Blast S10 BX - Revo 2.5r truggy conversion (in progress)
joe of loath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 11:59 AM   #619
mep
Tech Regular
 
mep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 331
Trader Rating: 40 (100%+)
Default

I run an outlaw mini series locally, & it amazes me what some cheaters try to do. The main reason I started the outlaw class was to utilize all of the aftermarket(non-Tamiya) hop-up parts & tires available, but I want to keep it "mini" in essence, so I limit motors to black-cans. Some guys do still use Johnson & Mabuchi silver cans, which I think is cool... but some of the local cheaters have tried to use closed-endbell airplane motors in the Mini class & one fool even tried to sneak a closed-end 12-turn Traxxas Titan past me, like I would not be able to distinquish the endbell from a Mabuchi! I just dont understand the urgent need to cheat, especially in a mini class. A cheater who feels like he proved something by cheating to win, is seriously only trying to overcompensate for other short-comings in life & is proving absolutely nothing. It's pitiful really. I now have to tech my freekin mini class after a heat or main, if someone is drastically fast down the back straight. This kind of stuff kills the fun of racing Minis

Just wanted to vent some frustration I suppose. I'm sure that most of you guys who race with closed motors understand the frustration.

....

For you guys who are simply trying out hot motors just to play around with, please dont take offense, because I have tried just about everything out there in my Minis just for fun! I've even put in a 10-turn Reedy mod for a bash session... which did nothing but spin the wheels horribly BTW! Awesome for jumping vast distances though
mep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 12:21 PM   #620
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,367
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mep View Post
I run an outlaw mini series locally, & it amazes me what some cheaters try to do. The main reason I started the outlaw class was to utilize all of the aftermarket(non-Tamiya) hop-up parts & tires available, but I want to keep it "mini" in essence, so I limit motors to black-cans. Some guys do still use Johnson & Mabuchi silver cans, which I think is cool... but some of the local cheaters have tried to use closed-endbell airplane motors in the Mini class & one fool even tried to sneak a closed-end 12-turn Traxxas Titan past me, like I would not be able to distinquish the endbell from a Mabuchi! I just dont understand the urgent need to cheat, especially in a mini class. A cheater who feels like he proved something by cheating to win, is seriously only trying to overcompensate for other short-comings in life & is proving absolutely nothing. It's pitiful really. I now have to tech my freekin mini class after a heat or main, if someone is drastically fast down the back straight. This kind of stuff kills the fun of racing Minis

Just wanted to vent some frustration I suppose. I'm sure that most of you guys who race with closed motors understand the frustration.

....

For you guys who are simply trying out hot motors just to play around with, please dont take offense, because I have tried just about everything out there in my Minis just for fun! I've even put in a 10-turn Reedy mod for a bash session... which did nothing but spin the wheels horribly BTW! Awesome for jumping vast distances though
I couldn't agree with you more. What makes mini racing so much fun is the cars are for the most part evenly matched. Going fast should be with good driving and a good set up. I don't mind being beaten by better driving etc., but it sure pisses me off when someone someone blows by me on the straight when I know i've got a really strong silvercan in the car.
Granpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 12:37 PM   #621
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,519
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Default

This is unfortunately why I think I will not participate in the Mini class this year for TCS.Or I should say any Closed endbell motor class.Too much crap going on and honestly at a National level,to show up thinking you can outdrive people when your NOt cheating and more then likely a good amount of the competition is,SUCKS [email protected]$.I am over it.
racenut123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 12:51 PM   #622
Tech Initiate
 
ChuckWick357's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 48
Default

I was just saying to a friend of mine that racing the mini is like going back to racing RS4s in a parking lot 8 – 9 years ago. More about having fun then being serious. Miss those days.
I haven’t raced in a wile, last Wednesday I was turning 17.3-4 on average. I dipped down to 16.7 a couple times. I figure I can clean up my driving and make it to mid 16s but I need a motor to help me past that. My electric motor knowledge is way limited to I am looking for some help to find a good LEGAL motor
__________________
I live with Fear and sometimes SHE let's me Race!!
ChuckWick357 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 12:52 PM   #623
Tech Master
 
Hawk6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Freeport, IL
Posts: 1,549
Trader Rating: 50 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racenut123 View Post
This is unfortunately why I think I will not participate in the Mini class this year for TCS.Or I should say any Closed endbell motor class.Too much crap going on and honestly at a National level,to show up thinking you can outdrive people when your NOt cheating and more then likely a good amount of the competition is,SUCKS [email protected]$.I am over it.
David Weir and Scotty Ernst solved this problem for their "Mini Mayhem" race at Trackside in October by having "grab bag" motors.

David bought a bunch of silver can motors, gave them all identical basic break in (2 minute water dip or something), tested them and didn't use the extremely good or extremely bad ones. I think he said all the motors we ended up using tested with 6% of each other on RPM. Every round, each driver grabbed a different motor. At the end of the race event, we each kept the last motor we used.

We are talking about doing this at our local club for mini races.

Another idea is to do what they do at local dirt tracks where there is a rule that any driver can basically accuse someone of cheating by buying that person's engine for $200 or $500. You could do the same with silver cans at the weekly club races -- At the end of any qualifier or race, any driver can exchange motors with anyone else for $15. That would encourage EVERYONE not to put hours and hours and hours into tweaking or tuning one motor.
Hawk6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 01:07 PM   #624
Suspended
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,519
Trader Rating: 28 (100%+)
Default

Club racing is one thing,but big dollar{cost to compete}races like TCS at the national level is another.I sincerely hope they can clamp down on the cheating,and define what is cheating clearly.Unfortunately we can't leave it to the racers to do the right thing because it's that small percentage of guys who will do anything to win.I have seen it all too.Running Traxxas motors,Zap advance timing,physical advance timing,cranking the com,Using extra/small rare earth magnets to advance or retard timing.You name it,it's been done and until it is clear what can and can't be done it will continue.Thats why these types of motors that can't be easily teched,suck IMO.Dave has a good idea,but will Tamiya do this?Probably not.And I can't blame them.Too much whining from the racers is what will result.
racenut123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 01:18 PM   #625
Tech Apprentice
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: south africa
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by razzor View Post
Minnesh roll out is relative to the type of track you run on.
For touring we have used from 40mm - 45mm on tight to med tracks and i have seen guys run as high as 47/48mm on fast flowing tracks where you carry a lot of speed but motors running these roll outs over heat fast.
The sweet spot seems to be around 43 - 45mm.
Hope this helps.

thanks going to try 45 rollout
need to find a decent fan to cool it enough
thanks again
minnesh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 01:51 PM   #626
Tech Master
 
Hawk6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Freeport, IL
Posts: 1,549
Trader Rating: 50 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racenut123 View Post
Club racing is one thing,but big dollar{cost to compete}races like TCS at the national level is another.

Dave has a good idea,but will Tamiya do this?Probably not.And I can't blame them.Too much whining from the racers is what will result.

There wasn't any whining at the Mini Mayhem race about the motor grab bag idea.

And guess what? The fact guys were still fast, and me and the rest of the slow guys were still slow. What that taught me was to quit mumbling under my breath "ya they're fast, but they're probably cheating to do it" and just work on my driving.

If someone somehow fixes the motor issue, then all of us will say "sure, they're using the same motor as me, but they must be doing something illegal to their _______ (batteries, tires, ESCs, bearings, gears,....).

My opinion.
Hawk6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 02:00 PM   #627
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Outside of Crook County Illinois
Posts: 1,949
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to A-Ko
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racenut123 View Post
Club racing is one thing,but big dollar{cost to compete}races like TCS at the national level is another.I sincerely hope they can clamp down on the cheating,and define what is cheating clearly.Unfortunately we can't leave it to the racers to do the right thing because it's that small percentage of guys who will do anything to win.I have seen it all too.Running Traxxas motors,Zap advance timing,physical advance timing,cranking the com,Using extra/small rare earth magnets to advance or retard timing.You name it,it's been done and until it is clear what can and can't be done it will continue.Thats why these types of motors that can't be easily teched,suck IMO.Dave has a good idea,but will Tamiya do this?Probably not.And I can't blame them.Too much whining from the racers is what will result.
I think at regional levels cheating runs rampant, especially the tracks that don't initiate a strong "tech" program. At the Nats I did feel the playingfield and "tech" was somewhat leveled. Other than can crimping, there is not much you can do to a black can motors. If you try twisting, you break the ceramic that connects the stack to the com. Magnet zapping advance well you could try that, with the weak magnetic material I don't really see that making a difference. I also did not see any zappers Nats.

The key has been optimizing your setup, breaking in your motor and use correct gearing. After that, it comes down to details or "secrets" that may or may not work. If I could race the Nats again tomorrow, I think I will be faster than I was in Aug and hopefully finish with 4 wheels. I will apply the new things I learned and hopefully step-it-up a little more like the winner did.

It is sad being a hobby people still justify cheating. If I really wanted to I could buy an aftermarket mini gearset, to make my mini faster, knowing that the track will not check or breakdown my car. If you crank the com or crimp the can, that is easy to check. Many tracks don't seem to check.

I have never cheated or justified the need to. I have wanted to learn what the cheaters do so I know what to check for and also to see how much of a difference their cheat might make. There were people at the nats messing with their batteries and even removing the weight that they added for tech. Fortunately the ones that I know of that did this, did not win.

My conscience is clear I bet theirs is not.
__________________
Jeffrey
teamgravityrc.com - motivrc.com
USVTA National Points Member #101
A-Ko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 02:03 PM   #628
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Outside of Crook County Illinois
Posts: 1,949
Trader Rating: 2 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to A-Ko
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawk6 View Post
There wasn't any whining at the Mini Mayhem race about the motor grab bag idea.

And guess what? The fact guys were still fast, and me and the rest of the slow guys were still slow. What that taught me was to quit mumbling under my breath "ya they're fast, but they're probably cheating to do it" and just work on my driving.

If someone somehow fixes the motor issue, then all of us will say "sure, they're using the same motor as me, but they must be doing something illegal to their _______ (batteries, tires, ESCs, bearings, gears,....).

My opinion.
I don't think perfect classes will ever be equal. If we switched to BL and Lipo, I am sure there will be a new way to do something to those systems to give an advantage. Seems the way it goes...
__________________
Jeffrey
teamgravityrc.com - motivrc.com
USVTA National Points Member #101
A-Ko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 02:19 PM   #629
Tech Master
 
JamesArluck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,233
Trader Rating: 52 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to JamesArluck
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by racenut123 View Post
Unfortunately we can't leave it to the racers to do the right thing because it's that small percentage of guys who will do anything to win.t.
SAY DAT!!!
JamesArluck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 02:24 PM   #630
Tech Master
 
Hawk6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Freeport, IL
Posts: 1,549
Trader Rating: 50 (100%+)
Default

So, do a motor grab bag or a "I think you're cheating so I get to give you my motor and take your motor for $15" rule.

One of those rules would end the motor cheating discussion.
Hawk6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
X-ray T2, Tips and Tricks trailranger Electric On-Road 4 05-17-2008 02:44 PM
Silver Can (Mabuchi) Motor Tricks miller1990 Electric On-Road 1 03-06-2007 10:06 PM
Co27 motor tuning tips, hints, or tricks schmidt452 Electric Off-Road 16 11-08-2006 11:04 PM
tips and tricks XXX-NT streetstock Electric Off-Road 2 05-13-2005 10:50 AM
Tips And Tricks rctc3 Electric On-Road 36 03-10-2002 10:54 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 01:59 PM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net