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Old 03-06-2012, 04:29 AM   #1621
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Since my super clod (stock motors, full ball bearings) easily outperforms my TXT-1 (sport tuned motors, full ball bearings) and both has stock gear ratios (30:1 vs 34:1) i suspected either the sport tuned motors dont perform no way near as claimed, or the super clod motors performed better than expected, so i took a clod motor out and checked with a tachometer.

Unlike the sticker version this one has "MABUCHI MOTOR RS540-SH
TD056729 MADE IN CHINA" written directly on the can. (they may come with other production lot numbers and some has TN instead of TD) this motor has serial nr 7435076 according to the manual.

I took several tests with a fully charged GP3300 7.2v battery (and let it cold for a while) and also checked how many voltage left after a few minutes

V left: rpm:
8.6: 20174,20644,20421,20069
8.3: 19502,19549

Those results is even slightly better than the hyped "4 slot Johnson"
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:42 AM   #1622
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The CS brush was a running production change that started appearing in brown box motors (e.g. bought separately, not included in a kit) about 2 years ago this month.

Nobody is certain what it means (Carbon-Silver?) but they are harder than the old soft brush motors (red nylon pip on endbell) and softer than the old hard brush motors (white nylon pip on endbell). Motors with CS brushes have a dyed red pip on the endbell and the brushes have "CS" stamped into them.

Generally speaking, the CS brushed motor has better performance that its predecessors. It is a legal TCS motor and is sold under the Tamiya #53689 part number. Almost all new motors sold in the brown box today are CS motors.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:44 AM   #1623
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oops nvm.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:05 PM   #1624
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(to say atleast) But theres only one 540-J motor and it has been around for like what? 15-20 years? it isnt even available at Johnsons website. I guess Tamiya only changed the serial nr from 7435044 to 53689 when they started to selling it in the brown boxes


i have never seen the dyed red pip on the endbell you have any pics?
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:37 PM   #1625
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Originally Posted by village View Post
(to say atleast) But theres only one 540-J motor and it has been around for like what? 15-20 years? it isnt even available at Johnsons website. I guess Tamiya only changed the serial nr from 7435044 to 53689 when they started to selling it in the brown boxes


i have never seen the dyed red pip on the endbell you have any pics?
I have one that came in a kit.
It's not that fast compaired to the other motors.

The black cap top motors are still the fastest for me.
All sick fast!

Also, wanted to add a fast motor means nothing if you can't put the power down and drive it!

Last edited by Mr RCTech; 03-10-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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Old 04-30-2012, 09:57 PM   #1626
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Can anyone tell me where I can buy red dot motors, or race prepared silver cans. I need one/two for my GT car. at my club we race VTA 21.5 4.2 FDR & GT silver can. Open weight and gearing together. I would like to give the VTA's a run for there money with my F103gt.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:25 PM   #1627
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Autopsy of an old gentleman...

This motor leave me sunday, 11am. As it was a fairy tale, it stop forever after putting my F104 in pole position, while reaching the pits.

Reason for dying was the brush spring that breaks.

Not too bad for a motor I got with a FF01 in 1993....used into countless races (national in Italy as well...).

Probably some old guru can help me: this is the 3rd version I found with this can:
No balancing
Epoxy balancing
Mechanical balancing (look closer and you cna find some milling...)

Others?
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Old 05-01-2012, 12:03 AM   #1628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Pink View Post
Can anyone tell me where I can buy red dot motors, or race prepared silver cans. I need one/two for my GT car. at my club we race VTA 21.5 4.2 FDR & GT silver can. Open weight and gearing together. I would like to give the VTA's a run for there money with my F103gt.
Hey Shane, you can contact rccardr, go over break in with Scott W, or look around for one of the current crop of "CS" Johnson motors. Talk to Scott first, though. He's dynoed everything in sight, including many of Doc's red dots.
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Old 05-01-2012, 02:55 AM   #1629
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My silver can i run in my f109 isnt very old but you can push the centre shaft easy an inch or so in and out and it still settles back to the middle and seems to go really well so want to keep it and should I just leave it or is there something i can do to take the play out of it?
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:29 AM   #1630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giorgio View Post

Autopsy of an old gentleman...

This motor leave me sunday, 11am. As it was a fairy tale, it stop forever after putting my F104 in pole position, while reaching the pits.

Reason for dying was the brush spring that breaks.

Not too bad for a motor I got with a FF01 in 1993....used into countless races (national in Italy as well...).

Probably some old guru can help me: this is the 3rd version I found with this can:
No balancing
Epoxy balancing
Mechanical balancing (look closer and you cna find some milling...)

Others?
4 slot motors are always fast.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:55 AM   #1631
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Originally Posted by malcnz View Post
My silver can i run in my f109 isnt very old but you can push the centre shaft easy an inch or so in and out and it still settles back to the middle and seems to go really well so want to keep it and should I just leave it or is there something i can do to take the play out of it?
Excessive end play is almost always the result of overheating the motor. You can slip a piece of tubing between the pinion and the bushing which works sometimes. However, a motor like that is just "junk" now and isn't worth much. I've never checked a motor that had a lot of end play that had much torque. Some will still rev high, but the other #s are not there.

As always, this has been my experience and will defer to those with more knowledge.
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Old 05-02-2012, 04:27 AM   #1632
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I'd be quite interested to know where you got the theory about overheating causing the end play to be so bad. I have a motor that is awesome on the track but a huge amount of endplay. Unfortunately this motor is basically at the end of its life due to the main bushing wearing significantly (gear mesh is becoming a problem).

I decided to cut it in half and see what is causing all the endplay. It looked to me like the plastic shims inside the motor had possibly worn. My theory is the magnets pull the armature across towards the endbell causing the armature to be forced against the shims causing wear. (the armature is not centrally located in the magnets out of the box)

I would pretty much say overheating has nothing to do with the armature being able to move so far. Its just wear and tear from the armature being pulled to the side all the time grinding away on the shims.

Mike
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:09 AM   #1633
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I'd be quite interested to know where you got the theory about overheating causing the end play to be so bad. I have a motor that is awesome on the track but a huge amount of endplay. Unfortunately this motor is basically at the end of its life due to the main bushing wearing significantly (gear mesh is becoming a problem).

I decided to cut it in half and see what is causing all the endplay. It looked to me like the plastic shims inside the motor had possibly worn. My theory is the magnets pull the armature across towards the endbell causing the armature to be forced against the shims causing wear. (the armature is not centrally located in the magnets out of the box)

I would pretty much say overheating has nothing to do with the armature being able to move so far. Its just wear and tear from the armature being pulled to the side all the time grinding away on the shims.

Mike
Mike, you are absolutely correct in saying that wear and tear can be the culprit in motors with excessive end play. The post I was responding to stated that the motor was relatively new and was used in a F1 car. From the conditions described in that post, the end play was not from wear and tear, but from overheating. There are numerous reasons that F1 cars tend to be over geared, which I won't get into here, but a lot of them are.

Also, if wear and tear were the only culprit, all motors would develop huge amounts of end play. Most motors in Tamiya Minis don't seem develop large amounts of end play which normally don't overheat motors due to their fixed gearing. The motors with large amounts of end play, in my experience have usually been in TC or F1s which can be geared up.

My theory was developed after some years of observation of many hundreds of Silvercans. I've owned several hundreds of these motors personally and have "worked on", checked, tuned both "old school" and "new age" for fellow racers.

You may be correct in your observation and will not disagree with you. However, it's best to keep an "open mind" and give some credence to other points of view.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:47 AM   #1634
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Actually, you're both correct. Imagine that.

Excessive shaft play is generally caused by wear or elimination of the plastic or phenol washers, usually at the brushed end of the can. This can happen through high heat (which, as the G-Man points out, is not unusual in an F1 or sedan application) or through impact.

When an F1 car whacks the wall on the left rear, the entire weight of the arm is slammed against that poor little washer, which can split or crush it. The little bits zoom out the vent, and -voila!- a lot of shaft play. This seldom happens in Mini's because other parts of the chassis hit first and break the force of the impact. With F1's, there's a solid axle and a hard pod and aside from the tire sidewall, that's it. We used to minimize this by placing a metal spacer between the pinion and the endbell bushing- small enough to permit free rotation, large enough to prevent motor damage.

Giorgio, I have a couple of 4 vent motors, pretty sure one of them is new. They're illegal for USA TCS use, but if you can use them let me know and we'll work something out.

Shane, feel free to shoot me an e-mail at [email protected].
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:43 PM   #1635
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Cheers guys on the comments.
Dont think I overheated it as have been really careful and was surprised just how cool it has been keeping as has great speed which hasnt changed since I found the endbell play.
The theory on the crash damage could be correct as have the odd crash but more the odd roll over but nothing to serious..running outside on ashphalt.
oh well might keep running it and see what happens.
Thanks again.
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