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Old 10-11-2011, 09:54 PM   #1546
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TZ's require 1/8" id x 3/8"od x 5/32" wide bearings, most motors use this size

small pin punch and a good whack will get the can bushing out, the endbell should only require light pressure
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Old 12-30-2011, 02:51 AM   #1547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceBucks
What is the difference between these 2 motors from Tamiya: 7435043 and 7435079?

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Both look like 540 silver cans, but one is $16.50 and the other is $10.50
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shiny one is just a "mabuchi" (i.e. slower).. the other one is a "J" (johnson, more RPM) motor which has more RPM. you want the "J"...
Wrong, both are johnson motors. The shiny one with red and black cables 7435043 usually came with some F103 kits many years ago, and the dull motor 7435079 came with a tank but is also included in the gear box kit 8085153.

I dont know the performance for the shiny can, but im pretty sure its very equal to the 540-J motor. However the 7435079 can be found in johnson product cataloge as the HC683G-011 and it performs slightly better than the 540-J

Last edited by village; 12-30-2011 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:11 AM   #1548
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Originally Posted by minimadman2003 View Post
I've been rotating through a lot of different Tamiya kits lately, and have come across no less than 4 different silver can motors. There's the standard silver Johnson 540J motor, the stickered Mabuchi 540 with back endbell, the dull gray Mabuchi with a silver endbell, and the dull gray motor with the white plastic-looking wire retainers near the comm.

I would say the performance I've seen between them is about the same order as I listed them, at least "stock".

Now if I could just get ONE to run worth a darn!
Time to settle this... you need rotate way more than that because theres ALOT of motors Tamiya has probarly been used around 10-15 different 540 motors over the years.

7435035 is a shiny mabuchi with round sticker
7435043 is a johnson
7435044 is the johnson 540-J
7435076 is a mabuchi
7535079 is a johnson

Besides those, theres plenty off others i.e "rc boys 540 motor", 2 older mabuchi version with plastic endbells one with beige/white and one with black(came with i.e monster beetle and blackfoot) and one REALLY old version who had a brownish/copper colored can. Then theres this johnson motor with 4 slots.

"johnson better than mabuchi" is a myth. i.e the ones who comes with super clod buster (7435076) performs better than the optional motor 540-J (286g-cm and 8.2A vs 255g-cm and 7.9A)
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:36 AM   #1549
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Perhaps overseas, but not so in the US. We've been getting Johnson J motors in various production runs (hard brush, soft brush, CS brush) pretty much exclusively for the past six or seven years. Latest Mabuchi series (dull gray can) have been coming in TT01 kits, but you never see them on the shelves available separately.

Despite a lot of work (and a lot of ruined motors) we've never been able to get Mabuchi motors to perform as consistently or reliably as the Johnsons.

Current Red Dot full race Johnsons with CS brushes pull from 19,500 to 20,500 at 5 volts (vs. about 11,200 out of the box) with a Facts Machine power number of 45+, but our best Mabuchi effort was around 14K at the same voltage. Go figure.
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:09 PM   #1550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Perhaps overseas, but not so in the US. We've been getting Johnson J motors in various production runs (hard brush, soft brush, CS brush) pretty much exclusively for the past six or seven years. Latest Mabuchi series (dull gray can) have been coming in TT01 kits, but you never see them on the shelves available separately.

Despite a lot of work (and a lot of ruined motors) we've never been able to get Mabuchi motors to perform as consistently or reliably as the Johnsons.

Current Red Dot full race Johnsons with CS brushes pull from 19,500 to 20,500 at 5 volts (vs. about 11,200 out of the box) with a Facts Machine power number of 45+, but our best Mabuchi effort was around 14K at the same voltage. Go figure.
Interesting, but i highly doubt the 540-J would change only beacause it get shipped some where else, some slightly differences over the years yes but not because of the geographic. Whats this latest mabuchi motors in TT01 you talking about?

I have have also heard that johnson performs better but it all depends which motor you compare to, people tends to think of mabuchi only as the junky round sticker motor (194g-cm) but as i told you; the super clod mabuchi motors(also included in twin detonator) performs even better than the hyped and expensive 540-J. But when we leave the "legit rc motor" world and enter the world of drill motors, then yes johnson performs better.

So, i believed you was talking about motors available in the RC kits and not about motors made for drills and floor care, if all accetable then its the johnson HC613G-011 motor who will probarly perform best btw do you have a nr for the red dot full race johnson who hits up to 20,500 rpm at 5v?(sounds pretty amazing)
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Old 12-30-2011, 12:21 PM   #1551
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Can't speak to how the US market is handled but over here we've pretty much been limited to the Tamiya #53689 motor for a long time. Surely possible that some other motors have been included in kits, but not kits that have sold in large volume in this country or for which replacement motors would be available. In the USA, Clodbusters come with Johnsons and I'm pretty sure Twin Detonators did too.

Red Dot motors aren't drill motors- they're made from Tamiya 53689 cores and are sold only by us directly to racers. Certainly the fastest (or most infamous, depending how you look at it ) silver can motor available to the R/C hobbyist anywhere in the world- including your home country. We also produce motors tuned for use in for F1 as well as the Famous Red Dot 15K (15,000 RPM at five volts) that's used by race tracks for handout motor series. For the past 4 years, we've sponsored the Senior Spec and Spec GT sedan series in Maryland by providing free handout 15K motors.

Our motto: "When too much power feels...just about right"

Shoot me an e-mail at [email protected] if you have any more questions.
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Old 01-29-2012, 09:00 AM   #1552
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I have read all 103 pages and found that three people really had put forth effort in speed secrets for the silver can: RCCARDR, Granpa and SwiftAlot. Just look up their names and what they post to save your time. I read all in one setting, one evening and pretty much...concluded that instead of messing around, just buy a Red Dot Motor. Learn how to perform maintenance of it and you should really be working on setup and driving skills. Fastest way to get to Japan for the TCS races.
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:39 AM   #1553
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what is the general opinion on how to break in the bushings on the motor, still brasso/oil mix ?
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Old 01-29-2012, 12:43 PM   #1554
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Ryan, I did the homework for you. You need to look up those names and read what they have written. They write and tell you exactly what needs to be done. I am not going to rewrite what they have written. It takes time and they are better writers. This is not a personal thing on you but if people are too lazy to do even that then it means no fast motor for them. Trust me, I read the whole thing in one setting and 50% dealt with "is it legal" to tune, 25% dealt with "asking what you were asking", 10% dealt with bickering, anothering 10% was about rules from other countries and people saying Hi back to one another, 4% was speed secret from the dynamic trio and 1% marketing. So there you have it, a break down of this thread but your best bet is looking up what those three have written and learn from them. We are all Grasshoppers.
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:23 PM   #1555
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N2Deep;

There are alot of contrasting opinions on this thread. There is no right or wrong just opinion.
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Old 01-29-2012, 01:56 PM   #1556
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True, most of them are opinions. I am going to order one of the red dot motors and see for my own eyes what has been done to it. First thing I am going to do is dyno test it, and lastly break it apart to see what was done to it. I have tested around 350-400 silver cans and I have never seen one above the 23,000 rpm mark. Sure, HPI makes silver cans also but anyone can spot them from a distance due to the white plastic blade fans. I also have heard that some Mabuchis and Johnson were designed for industrial use at 3volt, 5volt applications also. Time for me to search around but at least breaking the Red Dot Motor can give me a big clue by reverse engineering it. Time to count the winds and using a KO Propo Telsa Meter for magnetic strength.
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Old 01-29-2012, 04:38 PM   #1557
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#1 post you should remember is the one where a guy got caught with a neo magnet in his pocket at a race. That should lead you in the right direction.
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:07 AM   #1558
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Quote:
I am going to order one of the red dot motors and see for my own eyes what has been done to it. First thing I am going to do is dyno test it, and lastly break it apart to see what was done to it. I have tested around 350-400 silver cans and I have never seen one above the 23,000 rpm mark. Sure, HPI makes silver cans also but anyone can spot them from a distance due to the white plastic blade fans. I also have heard that some Mabuchis and Johnson were designed for industrial use at 3volt, 5volt applications also. Time for me to search around but at least breaking the Red Dot Motor can give me a big clue by reverse engineering it. Time to count the winds and using a KO Propo Telsa Meter for magnetic strength.
You're welcome to dyno test our motors (although we make Fantom dyno results available to anyone who asks) and open one up to see what it looks like, but you'll find it looks exactly like a Johnson #53689 inside, because that's precisely what it is. Our motors are not custom builds or intended for other uses (e.g. drill motors), so they have the same winds, same magnets & same can as every other Johnson 540 #53689 out there. This isn't voodoo, trickery or chicanery- it's physics. Anyone willing to do the research and spend money on the equipment and fluids necessary to make them go faster can duplicate our efforts- no soul selling required.

Assuming you're talking about 23K RPM @7.2 volts, those have actually been around for a long time. I seem to remember a youtube video of a guy in Japan running his motor on a MuchMore checker at 7.2 volts and it went over 25K- that was three years ago. Other than TCS legal motors, we don't test Red Dots at 7.2 volts without a load- not good for the motor- but I would guess a full race one would turn somewhere around 29-30K.

Right now our full race motors are hitting between 19,500 and 20,500 at five volts but honestly, I think that's about the limit. Very fast but you have to be absolutely correct on gearing, otherwise they run very hot. Most people are happier with a 15K. The motor's faster than stock but not so much that you have to change suspension, tires. or driving technique.

We ran an experiment a few weeks ago on carpet with Minis and the full race motor was hardly faster than the 15K...mostly because it was spinning the front wheels most of the way around the track. The 15K could put down pretty much all of the power it was producing, so it handled better and ran cooler. On high grip asphalt, the full race motor is definitely faster but it requires different suspension and tire tuning to take advantage of it. F1's the same deal- our F1 tune puts out less RPM than a full race motor but is easier to gear, runs cooler and lasts longer.

I think it's neat to see people still using these sealed endbell brushed motors, even with all of the high-end brushless stuff out there.
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Old 01-30-2012, 12:18 PM   #1559
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RCCARDR, thank you for all of the tips and tricks you have been giving us here. Without nudging us slower people to the right direction...our expectation of a regular silver can is mediocre at best. From your writings alone, I have made about 5 major tuning on the silver cans so far. There is one question I still have, besides using a full molarity of Hydrocloric acid to soften the brushes...what other hints on solvents are applied. I think brushes have three main component in them: Copper, graphite and silver.
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Old 01-30-2012, 02:50 PM   #1560
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Other than lubricants and comm drops (we recommend Mobil 1 and VooDoo, respectively), everything we use is water based- no solvents or acids. I can't even remember the last time I bought a can of motor spray.

We've never had much success trying to alter the composition of the brushes. It would be pretty hard to do so without similarly attacking the brush springs, caps, nylon endbell liner, epoxy coating on the winds, etc. and those are all made of very different materials that would be affected in different ways. And we steer clear of anything that's a potential health hazard.

I know people who claim that titrate of silver (used in hospital birthing rooms) is The Secret Elixir of Many RPMs, but our bench work in The Lab doesn't support that.

If you can't remove it with soap and water, we don't use it.
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