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Old 02-28-2006, 12:47 PM   #16
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I have had nothing but good things to say when it comes to ceramic. But I only use them in the inner drivetrain not in the wheel hubs as they are a little brittle and when you wreck one they are garbage. But they free the drivetrain up thats for sure.

magmarc.com has A.P.S. ceramic bearings, not bad pricing either. I have had the same bearings in my car for almost a year now, no breakdowns
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Old 02-28-2006, 12:51 PM   #17
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can u give me the site for the ceramic? please
http://stores.ebay.com/WalawalaStore

Veel plezier.
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:03 PM   #18
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THANX M8
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Old 02-28-2006, 03:34 PM   #19
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if you do the maths. say 1% of the rolling resistance is cause by friction of the bearings. the other 99% by friction on the ground, air resistance, spur/piniion, motor magnets, belts, not to mention some people even have drag brakes.

they claim a 30% improvement of cermaics over regular bearings, then 30% of 1% is not much is it.....
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Old 02-28-2006, 04:22 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by XingXing
if you do the maths. say 1% of the rolling resistance is cause by friction of the bearings. the other 99% by friction on the ground, air resistance, spur/piniion, motor magnets, belts, not to mention some people even have drag brakes.

they claim a 30% improvement of cermaics over regular bearings, then 30% of 1% is not much is it.....
Spoken like some one that has never used a quality set of ceramic bearings

Not to sure I like your use of examples to illustrate your point. We need friction on the ground otherwise the car would handle as if there were on ice. Same with air...we need that (although we use bodies to manulipulate how the drag drag/friction is used). Drag brakes only works at nuetral so this expample doesn't make sense...I would also think that the magnets of the motor do not come into effect here as well.

There is friction between the belts, shafts, diffs, spur pinion, and while we cannot get ride of the friction we can reduce it. The more we reduce it in theroy, the better. Why not try and reduce it even more by using better bearings.

I am not sure who claims ceramic bearings are 30% better than normal steel bearings but consider the advantage of using a high quality set of bearings. Now make that advantage even bigger by using ceramic bearings...see my point?

Once again, use a set of high quality ceramics and you will use nothing else!
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Old 02-28-2006, 05:06 PM   #21
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Spoken like some one that has never used a quality set of ceramic bearings

Not to sure I like your use of examples to illustrate your point. We need friction on the ground otherwise the car would handle as if there were on ice. Same with air...we need that (although we use bodies to manulipulate how the drag drag/friction is used). Drag brakes only works at nuetral so this expample doesn't make sense...I would also think that the magnets of the motor do not come into effect here as well.

There is friction between the belts, shafts, diffs, spur pinion, and while we cannot get ride of the friction we can reduce it. The more we reduce it in theroy, the better. Why not try and reduce it even more by using better bearings.

I am not sure who claims ceramic bearings are 30% better than normal steel bearings but consider the advantage of using a high quality set of bearings. Now make that advantage even bigger by using ceramic bearings...see my point?

Once again, use a set of high quality ceramics and you will use nothing else!
sorry to dissapoint you but i have acer ceramics. so thats sufficient for me give my opinions and findings?

acer claims 30% freer.

i wanted to see if they did in fact gave better rolling in practice, coz for $100 i want to see if is worth it....

anyway i tested the freeroll off the ground. i.e full speed. let off throttle and time when the wheels stop free rolling.

i tested it on my old bearings. bearing in mind these bearing were over 4 months old and in badly due for a change. anyway my front wheels which has a one-way free rolled for about 6.5seconds.

then i change to acer cearmics all throughout, and ran it in for a full pack and did the same test. it freerolled about 7seconds when off the ground

thats a extra freeroll of 0.5seconds. i attribute a large part of that improvement to just having new bearings.

anyway if you where now to put it on the ground and do a test with friction of the ground and wind resistance, well it aint going to make any difference.


anyway point being is yes it may give 30% less resistance, though the resistance of the bearing compared to the energy loss of other factors is not significant.

i.e 30% of virtually nothing is nothing


also tried to test the freeroll of the rear wheels, but with the added resistance of the ball diff inside. the time for the wheels to stop freerolling was only about 2seconds. put in ceramics and couldnt notice any difference at all on the stop watch. just goes to show the bearings make up only a very minut part of the resistance.... your freerolls is dominated by other factors.

so long as your bearings are clean then there will be no difference in what brand bearings you use. whethere they last longer is another story and also debatable.

just my findings.

cheers
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:25 PM   #22
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There are so many factors that dictate whether or not this or that works.

For instance with the bearings, the car has to be properly assembled and shimmed. And while I am not saying yours is asembled incorrectly, I am saying that if your belts are too tight or if the diffs are not shimmed correctly, the best bearings in the world will not make a difference. Heck if you wheel nuts are on too tight, it will effect performance.

But then again, if the Acer Ceramics were brand new, that would be the reason for poor performance. When fresh from the package, they actually spin less than good metal sheilded bearings IMO. Bearings with plastic sheilds need to be broken in...20-30 packs. But once they hit that mark, they just keep getting better and better. My 3 year old Acer's in my TC3 were better at the 3 year mark than they were when they were brand new.

Free roll is very much worthless IMO. Just because a car rolls for 60 seconds when off the ground does not translate into performance on the ground when the drivetrain is under load.

But using your math you gained 0.5 seconds of roll time. You say this is not a lot of performance. Do you understand how much time 1/2 a second equals on the track, during a race. That may not sound like a lot of time but that's probably equal to 5-10 feet on the straight...THAT'S FRICKING HUGE!!

Now I am not saying that switching to Ceramic bearings will make you faster by 1/2 a second a lap but...using your logic, you will see my point.

I get very suspecious when I hear people say that a good set of ceramic bearings is worthless or makes no difference. I am not sponsored or even close to being sponsored and I make sure that I spend my hard earned money wisely. I have been using ceramics for 5 years and I have never seen a case where they didn't make a noticable improvement in any situation.

And plus in an industry where any advantage is helpfull, no matter how small, can you afford not too...in this sport, races are won by 1/1000th of a second. If you were the second place drive that lost Cleveland by 1/1000th of a second, I bet you would wish would have used ceramics!!
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Old 02-28-2006, 06:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by koabich

But using your math you gained 0.5 seconds of roll time. You say this is not a lot of performance. Do you understand how much time 1/2 a second equals on the track, during a race. That may not sound like a lot of time but that's probably equal to 5-10 feet on the straight...THAT'S FRICKING HUGE!!

Now I am not saying that switching to Ceramic bearings will make you faster by 1/2 a second a lap but...using your logic, you will see my point.
too funny...

1/2second better free roll doesnt equate to faster striaght line speed of 1/2 second. some people are just so stupid.

i forgive you the detroit area doesnt have any good schools and the air quality effects brain cells over there, your comments are proof to that.
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Old 03-01-2006, 12:10 AM   #24
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THANX M8
WHERE DO U DRAVE IN HOLLAND?
AMCA Apeldoorn.
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Old 03-01-2006, 02:22 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XingXing
if you do the maths. say 1% of the rolling resistance is cause by friction of the bearings. the other 99% by friction on the ground, air resistance, spur/piniion, motor magnets, belts, not to mention some people even have drag brakes.

they claim a 30% improvement of cermaics over regular bearings, then 30% of 1% is not much is it.....

lets see, here. friction on the ground we want, its called traction, air resistance is what gives us downforce for more traction, pinion to spur friction doesnt vary according to the type of bearing you use only pitch, your motor magenets are DRIVING the car not resisting roll, belts will maintain the same resistance no matter what bearing you use, drag brakes arent in use when under throttle. not to mention your 1% is pure speculation. i fail to see how your "proving" ceramics arent worth it. heck with your type of nitpicking i could argue ceramics are faster based soley on the fact that the balls in the bearing are lighter than steel balls of std bearings and therefore create less rotational inertia on the driveline giving better acceleration. but in reality, i know that ceramics just plain work better. free roll means NOTHING! its how the car performs on the track that matters, and thats where ceramics do thier job.
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Old 03-01-2006, 03:24 AM   #26
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That's the #1 track from europe
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Old 03-01-2006, 06:45 AM   #27
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too funny...

1/2second better free roll doesnt equate to faster striaght line speed of 1/2 second. some people are just so stupid.

i forgive you the detroit area doesnt have any good schools and the air quality effects brain cells over there, your comments are proof to that.
Dude, I was not trying to get personal. Just because you are wrong and your logic and understanding is flawed doesn't mean that you have to lash out personally. But in Cali, they must not teach you to read. Read my entire post and comprehend it first...then and only then should you make a comment. Read the part of my type you quoted again and you will see that I even said that it doesn't equal to 1/2 second of performance unless you use YOUR logic, not mine. It's really easy to edit what someone else...hey man, whatever, as long as you feel better about yourself!
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Old 03-01-2006, 07:28 AM   #28
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well for me, ontrack performance i dont notice any difference in my lap times.
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Old 03-01-2006, 07:31 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hugovdb
That's the #1 track from europe
Slijmbal (and you foreigners cannot read what that means )
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Old 03-01-2006, 07:43 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by koabich
Dude, I was not trying to get personal. Just because you are wrong and your logic and understanding is flawed doesn't mean that you have to lash out personally. But in Cali, they must not teach you to read. Read my entire post and comprehend it first...then and only then should you make a comment. Read the part of my type you quoted again and you will see that I even said that it doesn't equal to 1/2 second of performance unless you use YOUR logic, not mine. It's really easy to edit what someone else...hey man, whatever, as long as you feel better about yourself!
Don't worry XingXing's an @$$ anyway. He hasn't learned to think before he speaks.
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