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modelling a 417x lower deck

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Old 01-05-2019, 09:14 AM
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Default modelling a 417x lower deck

Hi guys, I would like to know how difficult It is to draw a 417x's lower deck in CAD. I have experience in autocad and solidworks modelling. The difficulty should be to get accurate measuring for the distance between holes and over all shape of the chassis right? What kind of measuring tools will I need Besides an caliper? Thanks

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Old 01-05-2019, 10:25 AM
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Hi,

When I want to take some measurements I only use a caliper.

I use a reference point on the part and start from there. To measure from a hole to another I measure from edge to edge and subtract the radius of the first hole and the second. By example, for a measurement of 13mm I substract 1.5mm from the first 3mm hole and 1.5mm from the second to give me 10mm from center to center. Habitually Tamiya parts use 0.25mm resolution so if you arrive with a measurement of 10.08mm by example you can deduct that it's really 10mm (the reason is that maybe you where pushing too hard on the caliper or it was not perfectly square or that the hole is not perfectly round). I make some spot check from time to time from the reference point.

I only measure on the x and y axis, I never have perfect results when using trigonometry to calculate a hole that is offset but you can try it. In this case I put two countersunk screws that are in the same axis in the chassis and use a metal ruler against them and measure from there for both axis. It's not 100% accurate but like I said you will find really fast that the part designers usually work in no less than 0.25mm increment. The only parts that are really difficult to reverse engineer are Awesomatix the designer is really not lazy and if a hole need to be at a certain place it will be at that place

From time to time I print my sketch on my laser printer and compare it to the original part. Just confirm that you are printing at a 1:1 scale and you will be amaze how a cheap laser printer can be accurate.
For the overall design you can usually import a scan of the part and put it on another layer to compare it with yours design. Don't forget to use a reference on the original part to be at the same scale but home scanners are really not accurate.

Confirm with the machinist which software it use or at least which file format it can use. By example Bezerk is able to use my DXF files.

Another route that you can take is to talk with an aftermarket part designer like Bezerk and ask him if they already have something on hand. Sometime it can be less labour intensive to just ask to modify something than to start from scratch.

Good luck!

Alexandre
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Old 01-05-2019, 11:08 AM
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A very fine pencil, A3 paper and a quality ruler can be useful for tracing the general outline of the chassis so you can model compund curves etc as well as screw positions, but other than that just a caliper is all you need.
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:03 PM
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thanks for all the reply! This will be a fun project indeed.
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Old 01-05-2019, 10:39 PM
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"how Nero would do it"

Find someone with a flatbed scanner. Scan the chassis. Use the scan to trace an outline. Print that outline, compare to the original. Then go get stuff cut. The screw holes should be "sane" distances, for the most part. Likely to be whole MM distances.

I know a guy at my local track, who ~litterally~ scanned the top deck of his car, traced it, then used a water jet to make some out of aluminum.
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Old 01-06-2019, 12:27 AM
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who did that nero ?
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Nerobro View Post
"how Nero would do it"

Find someone with a flatbed scanner. Scan the chassis. Use the scan to trace an outline. Print that outline, compare to the original. Then go get stuff cut. The screw holes should be "sane" distances, for the most part. Likely to be whole MM distances.

I know a guy at my local track, who ~litterally~ scanned the top deck of his car, traced it, then used a water jet to make some out of aluminum.
Recently tried this with a shock tower, maybe it's my cheap scanner, but the shadows made the scan pretty difficult to use. It looks like the light was not directly below the part and all the holes became weird ovals.
If there are better scanners out there, I'd like to try it again.
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Old 01-06-2019, 08:03 PM
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Put the part on lightbox and take a photo from directly above
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by danny325is View Post
Put the part on lightbox and take a photo from directly above
Tried that as well - should work better if you are going to manually trace in CAD. I haven't had good results with having the software do the trace and outputting a CAD dxf, but it's probably a matter of adjusting some settings in the graphics package. I was going to work on it, but I got distracted looking into cheap 3D scanners.

Interesting topic though - I have heard you can send out parts and have a file created. I wonder if you can use a CNC router with a pointer as a bit and get the critical coordinates from the read out?

If anyone has some thoughts I'd like to hear them.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:26 PM
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To deal with the shadows... you can do a few things. Paint your original part a "color" so the shadows are less confusing. You could also try doing black and white, versus color, that can change how contrast turns out. You could also "take an impression" get your hands dirty, and tape the part to some paper, and rub. That will show all the edges, and should be contrast-y enough that you can scan and work with that.

Originally Posted by thefnshow View Post
who did that nero ?
I believe his name is Paul. He was there newyears working on a F1 car. Has the big aluminum pit box.
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Old 01-06-2019, 11:25 PM
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I just use a good steel rule for chassis/top decks, have found calipers to be handy for shock towers though.
Occasionally I will do a trace onto paper so I can extend some lines on curves that are a bit tricky to eyeball.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:35 AM
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Thanks for all the reply, here are some progress. I still need to do all the cut out though lol.



Actually Tamiya had a drawing for 417x's lower deck in the manual, which is really handy for drawing the outer edge of this chassis.


One thing I do notice though after 417x most of the cutouts on a TC's lower deck is gone... Wonder what will happen if I get rid of most of the cutout (I know I'm being lazy)
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by zxcvb1t View Post
Thanks for all the reply, here are some progress. I still need to do all the cut out though lol.



Actually Tamiya had a drawing for 417x's lower deck in the manual, which is really handy for drawing the outer edge of this chassis.


One thing I do notice though after 417x most of the cutouts on a TC's lower deck is gone... Wonder what will happen if I get rid of most of the cutout (I know I'm being lazy)
At the time of the TRF417X flex was probably not really a big issue as nowadays. Therefore i think, the cutouts are only for weight reduction. On the motorside there was an optional aluminium airduct for passive cooling. You can see the cutouts and the screwhole for it, but I think you can pass them too. Cooling of brushless motors is made with fans nowadays.

Flex characteristics has more to do with thickness of the decks and the kind of material.

BTW: Tamiya claimed improved flexibility with this chassis, but I don't see a meaningful pattern there. Maybe it's because of it's thickness of 2.25mm/2.0mm


Last edited by Tom1977; 01-11-2019 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:20 AM
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Thanks Tom. I think tamiya is behind flex game a little as starting from 417v5 they get over all the cutouts for even flex. But It was not until 419xr i believe they give drivers flex tunning option. No wonder At at tamiya track People just told me to remove the brace under motor mount and four screws on the top deck.... T
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Old 01-11-2019, 08:29 AM
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There are optional decks for the TRF417x:

Lower with 2.5mm (#42232)
Upper with 2.25mm (#42233)

Kit-standard was 2.25mm and 2.0mm.

Cutouts both identical.

Now I'm pretty sure, the cutouts have no effect on flex. It's the thickness.




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