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Old 12-10-2002, 09:47 AM   #31
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Yup, great point!
And when you said Hockenheim, you were refering to the old track with the forrest section or the Bernie neutered track that is now?
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Old 12-10-2002, 11:27 AM   #32
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Just thought I would throw some statistics in here. Below you will find the qualifying times for the Aldershot circuit here in the UK (www.amcc.org.uk for pics). They are each the qualifying track records for their particular class.

235mm IC Foam (4wd) Neil Diver ---- 22 5m 09.98s
200mm IC Foam Glyn Beal (Serpent) 21 5m 01.15s
200mm IC Rubber Darren Johnson (Yokomo) 21 5m 08.69s
190mm Electric (modified) Craig Drescher (Associated) 21 5m 08.42s
190mm Electric (27t Stock) Mark Holloway (Losi) 19 5m 15.29s
ProSport (1/10th pan I think) David Spashett ---- 22 5m 02.00s

Not all that much in it between rubber IC and the modified boring cars is there? There is not even all that much between the pan cars and the 235mm nitros.

Personally I think nitro is far better than electric, and cheaper as once you have the car and engine then the only consumable you have is the fuel. With electric you need motors, cells, brushes, expensive charger...

Bring back the rallycross season (1/8th off road), 9 minutes from a tank when the conditions are right with my Picco...

Last edited by university_dave; 12-10-2002 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:30 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by university_dave
Not all that much in it between rubber IC and the modified boring cars is there? There is not even all that much between the pan cars and the 235mm nitros.

Personally I think nitro is far better than electric, and cheaper as once you have the car and engine then the only consumable you have is the fuel. With electric you need motors, cells, brushes, expensive charger...
Except that the Pro10s were a full lap faster than anything but the 235's for a quarter of the price.

Add a couple of matched packs and a good charger (say a Mill) and you're still less than the price of my NTC3 setup with MT12, starter box, etc.
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Old 12-11-2002, 09:40 AM   #34
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The price of my Yokomo with all the stuff I put in it cost just a bit less than my MRX-3.
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Old 12-11-2002, 11:58 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by litespeed-dom
The price of my Yokomo with all the stuff I put in it cost just a bit less than my MRX-3.
I don't have a hard time believing that. Yok pan cars are incredibly expensive when compared to the AE ones. AE RC10L2 = $140ish, Yok = $300-400.

Okay, so that's an exception to the value/speed formula!
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Old 12-11-2002, 12:11 PM   #36
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yeah, you are right. Just happened that I have probably the most expensive 1/12 chassis out there and one of the cheaper 1/8th car. But when you compare a normal L3 w/ no hopups, and a SMP Slide, then that's day and night.
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Old 12-11-2002, 12:44 PM   #37
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Ill throw in some track records, these are for Bedworth in the UK http://www.bedworthrc.com



Super Touring, Karl Marsden (HPI) 21/303.33
1/10 IC, Ben Kelsall (Serpent) 21/307.98
Pro-10,David Spashett (Trinity) 22/307.59


As you can see the super touring is allready faster that the 1/10 IC, i think the super touring will be well into the 22's next season with 3300's, and there also only using 12 turns. The pro-10 record was set in 1998 with 2000's imagine how fast they would be with 3300's...
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Old 12-11-2002, 01:50 PM   #38
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Imagine how much SLOWER with 3300's They weigh alot more than 2000's. I have a bunch of good 3000's but for stock, I am STILL using my 2 year old 2000's because they are lighter and it feels like they deliver better punch.

However, on that track, being a big wide open, non-technical track, with the new stock motors......Fast lap times will still be accomplished.
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Old 12-11-2002, 02:35 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pit Crew
Imagine how much SLOWER with 3300's They weigh alot more than 2000's. I have a bunch of good 3000's but for stock, I am STILL using my 2 year old 2000's because they are lighter and it feels like they deliver better punch.

However, on that track, being a big wide open, non-technical track, with the new stock motors......Fast lap times will still be accomplished.
True, although the 3000s we have been running in stock weigh less than the 2400s (I think, I could be backwards. . .wouldn't be the first time) and have been giving very very close to the same performance.

But if we're running 3300s, we're running Mod, when weight doesn't make as much of a difference - we can gear up, wind down and go FAST. Fast GOOD. . .
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Old 12-11-2002, 02:47 PM   #40
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Oh yeah, no doubt. For example, with last year 3000HV, I ran 12X3, 22/100 gearing and has to reserve a bit for the first 2/3 minutes to make 8 minutes, this year with 3300's, I'm running 10x2, 26/100 and going full noodle from the first minute and still has tons of juice left after 8 mins. Imagine the pace difference from dropping 2 turns on motor and bump up 4 pinions.
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Old 12-11-2002, 03:09 PM   #41
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Well, that's all depends on WHOS the driver, WHAT is the spec of the competition and WHERE..........?

If you asked me 3-4 years ago.....I would say ELECT. hands down, there is no competition......modified motor can be 38,000 rpm easily........you cannot even see any .12 modified engine that can reach 35,000 unless you are spending big money back then (Please, Sirio 1.8HP 40,000 rpm now is a joke, everyone knows that).

1/10 elect TC vs 1/10 nitro TC (NOW) lets say TC3 vs NTC3......there is no way the elect TC3 can beat NTC3, assuming the same level of driver and the same track, period.........small block engine (ROAR legal) can boost 1.5HP at 35,000 rpm.....not to mention the TORQUE at the corner.......only chance for ETC to beat NTC is on some small track with lots of tight turns that the NTC3 2nd gear is a waste.

Now, you guys saying using 1/12 or 1/10 PAN CAR like 10L2 or 12L3 versus nitro TC on a carpetted track..........that is not a competition, at least that is NOT FAIR, pan car are much lighter and it should be faster.......

Just my opinion........if ETC vs NTC.....I would say NTC will get the edge.

Last edited by Rookie Solara; 12-11-2002 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 12-11-2002, 05:19 PM   #42
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I know a VERY good driver who runs both TC3 and NTC3 on the same track. He has a really good equipment, both elec, and nitro. His Elec. power TC3 has better lap times.

Same Driver.
Same Track.
Same Day.

Elec = Faster
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Old 12-11-2002, 10:37 PM   #43
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the most important factor that should be consider is whether the track is wide open with long straight or tight track with very short straight. Small Tight Track favors electrics. On open track, Nitro will just smoke the electric.

Electric cost a lot more than nitro because there are lots of things to consider like battery, motor, ESC. Nitro is just with good engine.
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Old 12-11-2002, 11:02 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rookie Solara
Now, you guys saying using 1/12 or 1/10 PAN CAR like 10L2 or 12L3 versus nitro TC on a carpetted track..........that is not a competition, at least that is NOT FAIR, pan car are much lighter and it should be faster.......
I never said anything about carpet. . .I don't run on carpet - we don't have a carpet track within 200 miles of here, although Futureal is looking to open one a couple of hours from here (wooHhoooo!!)

I run on asphalt/concrete - both Pro10 (10L2) and 200mm Nitro (NTC3).

That's what I'm comparing, so it is a competition, although it isn't fair - just over 2lbs vs what, 5 pounds? Pro10 has better aero (GTP vs Sedan), etc.

But the guy who started the thread didn't say anything about WHAT electric and I'm still keeping to sanctioned types of racing. . .not going 30 cells or such - normal 6 cell mod in the Pro10 and stock in the 1/8th and 1/10th. . .
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Old 12-11-2002, 11:43 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by TRF414M
the most important factor that should be consider is whether the track is wide open with long straight or tight track with very short straight. Small Tight Track favors electrics. On open track, Nitro will just smoke the electric.

Electric cost a lot more than nitro because there are lots of things to consider like battery, motor, ESC. Nitro is just with good engine.
Just FYI - Revelation is LARGE OPEN track and Pro10 times sit right between 1/8th and 1/10th nitro - faster than 1/10th and just slightly less than 1/8th.

Real numbers - from Stormerhobbies.com

NTC3 kit - 269.95
MT12 - 149.85
Front Foams (45 shore, Jaco) - 19.95
Rear Foams (40 shore, Jaco) - 19.95
Receiver Pack - Dynamite - 34.95
Hitec 945MG steering servo - 79.95
Hitec 625MG throttle servo - 49.95
Hitec 3 channel receiver (75) - 49.95
Body (Trinity Reference) - 21.95
AE Starter Box - 79.95
Battery Packs for starter box- 2 @ 14.95
Glow Starter - 14.95
1 Gallon O'Donnel 20% - $20.95 (local)

Total Nitro 1/10th scale - 842.30 plus tax and shipping

FTTC3 kit - 289.95
Reedy Ti 10x2 - 54.95
Matched 3300's - [email protected]
Quantum Competition - 159.95
Hitec 945MG steering servo - 79.95
Yok dish rims - 6.95
HPI Green inserts - [email protected] 4.95
Sorex 36G's - [email protected] 12.95
Body (Trinity Reference) - 21.95
Novak Millenium - 142.95

Total Electric 1/10th scale - 1028.30 plus tax and shipping

RC10L2 kit - 159.95
Reedy Ti 10x2 - 54.95
Hitec 625 steering servo - 49.95
Quantum Competition - 159.95
Matched 3300s - [email protected]
Novak Millenium - 142.95
TRC Pink fronts - 24.95
Jaco Green rears - 14.95
Hot Bodies Toyota GT1 - 22.00 (from Hotbodies)

Total Pro10 - 839.50

Okay, granted - I went fairly high end with most things. But I did it with ALL THREE and I think I was reasonable for an actual RACING setup.

I only race with 2 3000's - I alternate them. Actually, right now I only have one good pack. . .

Okay, I think my eyes have been opened. Hmmmmmmm
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