Yokomo BD9
#467
Tech Elite
Mid
Mid has always been better. The industry just needed Awesomatix to prove it.
#468
Tech Master
#469
Tech Elite
iTrader: (8)
I wouldn’t go rushing out buying a conversion just yet.
#470
Tech Elite
I asked one of Yokomo’s top mechanics and prototype testers about this and he said “ Sadly it won’t help. All the mid-motor conversions being released will probably not work like the Awesomatix. The current damper design on Xray, Infinity, Yokomo chassis is why the mid-motor setup won’t work well. The Awesomatix unique damper and spring setup is EXACTLY why the mid-motor conversion works so well for them. The progressive spring setup on the AMX is so good that it’s impossible to replicate using standard coil springs”.
I wouldn’t go rushing out buying a conversion just yet.
#471
Tech Elite
iTrader: (8)
I did mention to him to possibly try a FSR Bullet belt setup. He said he might look into that belt design layout.
#472
I expect as a Yokomo die hard, they do attempt to create and sell a factory mid motor car. I agree that it can work for sure with a standard TC design, especially for some high grip n rip action.
#473
I asked one of Yokomo’s top mechanics and prototype testers about this and he said “ Sadly it won’t help. All the mid-motor conversions being released will probably not work like the Awesomatix. The current damper design on Xray, Infinity, Yokomo chassis is why the mid-motor setup won’t work well. The Awesomatix unique damper and spring setup is EXACTLY why the mid-motor conversion works so well for them. The progressive spring setup on the AMX is so good that it’s impossible to replicate using standard coil springs”.
I wouldn’t go rushing out buying a conversion just yet.
I believe all of the team cars going to nationals are more or less standard cars although some of us are still using the longer 55mm front arms for increased high speed corner stability.
#474
Tech Elite
If Yokomo expects to match the performance of the Amwesomatix just by using a mid motor conversion then I would agree that that isn't a realistic expectation. More has to be done for sure but the mid will still be better. Perhaps they expected too much - hence the loss of optimism. I hope to convert all my std TC's to mids.
#475
Tech Champion
iTrader: (62)
I think the rotor style dampeners are exactly what Yokomo, Xray, Tamiya...and all the rest need to develop. The lower center of gravity with that style dampener I don't think can be replicated with a standard style shock. Mid motor setups have been done before and they were not revolutionary. I had the Schumacher when it had a mid motor configuration and it was ok but not really better than the standard car.
#476
the Xray is doing more than that - I’ve seen what they are running right now very much up close - but it’s not quite coming through on track. Don’t be fooled by Bruno winning. He could win with almost anything.
#477
Tech Adept
iTrader: (3)
I’m not sure if it’s simply the rotary dampers that make the mid motor work so well. The Awesomatix also went to much longer front and rear arms at about the same time as moving to the mid motor (+9mm front and +8mm rear) which is not a straightforward task with the types of arms most cars use. Also, when I switched to mid motor on my previously run Awesomatix cars I noticed the tuning window was much more narrow and the setups were much more particular before they were any faster. The same may be true for other conversions and the ideal setups may not be found yet (if they exist).
Last edited by Tremor24; 08-02-2019 at 04:56 AM.
#478
Tech Elite
iTrader: (13)
Throwing my 2 cents in as a car designer who has tested the two designs back to back and also has seen a few top drivers prefer their cars with the Zero Tribe Xray Conversion to the conventional layout (and seen some not prefer it as well!)
Equal length drivetrains cars, AKA mid motor are much easier to drive hard. Just by changing the drivetrain and chassis layout the cars become much more stable and have superior grip on corner exit. Not having the pendulum of the motor in the back gives a much more confident feel when driving. We have not noticed a decrease in steering due to the motor going forward. However, having the motor be more towards the front and having the belts applying power equally allow the car to pull itself out of the corner more effectively. As an added benefit, they wire up much more nicely.
This chassis layout is also much easier on tires. A pretty substantial increase in tire life has been noticed. This is really a plus on asphalt on hot days as the tires do not overheat as much over a run.
There are many reasons why we did not use Equal Length drivetrains in the past. I think the biggest reason was the amount of power being run. In the days of the TA05, OVA, etc, we were not running the power we have today. A more aggressive car with the motor towards the back created a quicker car. With increased power, the new "old" layout is better suited to lay down the power appropriately. Couple that with the new cab forward bodies (which I still don't think they create much more downforce) which moves the aero pressure point to the front of the car to get increased steering (much like they did with offroad buggies) and the benefit seems to compound.
While I don't believe the cars are mind numbingly faster, they seem to be at least equally as fast and much easier to drive. I do believe the design is the way forward. If companies do not want to develop the mid motor cars, they will lose market share and pace over time.
Equal length drivetrains cars, AKA mid motor are much easier to drive hard. Just by changing the drivetrain and chassis layout the cars become much more stable and have superior grip on corner exit. Not having the pendulum of the motor in the back gives a much more confident feel when driving. We have not noticed a decrease in steering due to the motor going forward. However, having the motor be more towards the front and having the belts applying power equally allow the car to pull itself out of the corner more effectively. As an added benefit, they wire up much more nicely.
This chassis layout is also much easier on tires. A pretty substantial increase in tire life has been noticed. This is really a plus on asphalt on hot days as the tires do not overheat as much over a run.
There are many reasons why we did not use Equal Length drivetrains in the past. I think the biggest reason was the amount of power being run. In the days of the TA05, OVA, etc, we were not running the power we have today. A more aggressive car with the motor towards the back created a quicker car. With increased power, the new "old" layout is better suited to lay down the power appropriately. Couple that with the new cab forward bodies (which I still don't think they create much more downforce) which moves the aero pressure point to the front of the car to get increased steering (much like they did with offroad buggies) and the benefit seems to compound.
While I don't believe the cars are mind numbingly faster, they seem to be at least equally as fast and much easier to drive. I do believe the design is the way forward. If companies do not want to develop the mid motor cars, they will lose market share and pace over time.
#479
Tech Elite
Yes,development is fast paced with AMX.. while most std. TC manufactures make only a few small improvements per season, AMX seems to make half a dozen per season. But back to the BD9. The car is really good right out of the box if not the best overall out of the box TC available. I'm almost afraid to change it but I know there is still considerable performance gain to be found in a std TC. Gotta go all in to make gains.
#480
Tech Elite
Homework
These guys really did their homework.