Like Tree308Likes

Yokomo BD9

Old 07-20-2019, 10:17 AM
  #466  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (57)
 
The Teacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,056
Trader Rating: 57 (100%+)
Default

The question is will the mid motor configuration really help...? If I don't see any of the top Yokomo drivers using these conversions...or at least something comparable what would make a person think these will be better?
EDWARD2003 likes this.
The Teacher is offline  
Old 07-20-2019, 11:41 AM
  #467  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chatham Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,351
Default Mid

Originally Posted by The Teacher View Post
The question is will the mid motor configuration really help...? If I don't see any of the top Yokomo drivers using these conversions...or at least something comparable what would make a person think these will be better?
​​​​​​ Mid has always been better. The industry just needed Awesomatix to prove it.
DavidNERODease is offline  
Old 07-21-2019, 03:11 PM
  #468  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,326
Default

Originally Posted by DavidNERODease View Post
​​​​​​ Mid has always been better. The industry just needed Awesomatix to prove it.
Tamiya had it right back in 2005. Took the industry 14 years to figure it out lol.
redbones is offline  
Old 07-23-2019, 06:31 AM
  #469  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (6)
 
EDWARD2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 2,051
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by The Teacher View Post
The question is will the mid motor configuration really help...? If I don't see any of the top Yokomo drivers using these conversions...or at least something comparable what would make a person think these will be better?
I asked one of Yokomo’s top mechanics and prototype testers about this and he said “ Sadly it won’t help. All the mid-motor conversions being released will probably not work like the Awesomatix. The current damper design on Xray, Infinity, Yokomo chassis is why the mid-motor setup won’t work well. The Awesomatix unique damper and spring setup is EXACTLY why the mid-motor conversion works so well for them. The progressive spring setup on the AMX is so good that it’s impossible to replicate using standard coil springs”.

I wouldn’t go rushing out buying a conversion just yet.
carkillaii and advfuel like this.
EDWARD2003 is offline  
Old 07-23-2019, 08:34 AM
  #470  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chatham Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,351
Default

Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post


I asked one of Yokomo’s top mechanics and prototype testers about this and he said “ Sadly it won’t help. All the mid-motor conversions being released will probably not work like the Awesomatix. The current damper design on Xray, Infinity, Yokomo chassis is why the mid-motor setup won’t work well. The Awesomatix unique damper and spring setup is EXACTLY why the mid-motor conversion works so well for them. The progressive spring setup on the AMX is so good that it’s impossible to replicate using standard coil springs”.

I wouldn’t go rushing out buying a conversion just yet.
Bah humbug. Seriously that's complete nonsense. Yes the AMX has other good stuff but you do not need rotary shocks and leaf springs to benefit significantly from the mid motor equal belt length design. Zero logic to that notion.
tbrymer, glennhl and gigaplex like this.
DavidNERODease is offline  
Old 07-23-2019, 09:02 AM
  #471  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (6)
 
EDWARD2003's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 2,051
Trader Rating: 6 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by DavidNERODease View Post
Bah humbug. Seriously that's complete nonsense. Yes the AMX has other good stuff but you do not need rotary shocks and leaf springs to benefit significantly from the mid motor equal belt length design. Zero logic to that notion.
It sucks to hear. I would like to try a BD9 mid-motor conversion as well. Yokomo’s top drivers have been testing a prototype, but the performance isn’t what they had hoped. You mentioned in your post about equal belt length design. Interestingly the Yokomo mechanic was specifically testing the BD9 with various pulley sizes. He was trying to accommodate for the difference between the front and rear power imbalance. Not to sure if it helped at all.

I did mention to him to possibly try a FSR Bullet belt setup. He said he might look into that belt design layout.
EDWARD2003 is offline  
Old 07-23-2019, 10:32 AM
  #472  
Tech Regular
 
DaSilva3525's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 444
Default

I expect as a Yokomo die hard, they do attempt to create and sell a factory mid motor car. I agree that it can work for sure with a standard TC design, especially for some high grip n rip action.
DaSilva3525 is offline  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:36 AM
  #473  
Tech Master
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,475
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post


I asked one of Yokomo’s top mechanics and prototype testers about this and he said “ Sadly it won’t help. All the mid-motor conversions being released will probably not work like the Awesomatix. The current damper design on Xray, Infinity, Yokomo chassis is why the mid-motor setup won’t work well. The Awesomatix unique damper and spring setup is EXACTLY why the mid-motor conversion works so well for them. The progressive spring setup on the AMX is so good that it’s impossible to replicate using standard coil springs”.

I wouldn’t go rushing out buying a conversion just yet.
This was told to the team at the Reedy race this year although not in that detail, just that they weren't looking at it further. No guarantee that they aren't testing it especially now that there is near zero development cost but I highly doubt we'll get a Yokomo manufactured mid motor option meaning the team doesn't believe its faster.

I believe all of the team cars going to nationals are more or less standard cars although some of us are still using the longer 55mm front arms for increased high speed corner stability.
Brian Bosley is offline  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:38 AM
  #474  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chatham Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,351
Default

If Yokomo expects to match the performance of the Amwesomatix just by using a mid motor conversion then I would agree that that isn't a realistic expectation. More has to be done for sure but the mid will still be better. Perhaps they expected too much - hence the loss of optimism. I hope to convert all my std TC's to mids.
DavidNERODease is offline  
Old 07-23-2019, 03:36 PM
  #475  
Tech Champion
iTrader: (57)
 
The Teacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,056
Trader Rating: 57 (100%+)
Default

I think the rotor style dampeners are exactly what Yokomo, Xray, Tamiya...and all the rest need to develop. The lower center of gravity with that style dampener I don't think can be replicated with a standard style shock. Mid motor setups have been done before and they were not revolutionary. I had the Schumacher when it had a mid motor configuration and it was ok but not really better than the standard car.
EDWARD2003 likes this.
The Teacher is offline  
Old 07-24-2019, 06:17 AM
  #476  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,616
Trader Rating: 11 (100%+)
Default

Originally Posted by EDWARD2003 View Post
It sucks to hear. I would like to try a BD9 mid-motor conversion as well. Yokomo’s top drivers have been testing a prototype, but the performance isn’t what they had hoped.
Same for Xray. It’s taking them quite a long time to get it right and they won’t rush to market. It’s not as simple as just “move the motor and use equal belt sizes”

the Xray is doing more than that - I’ve seen what they are running right now very much up close - but it’s not quite coming through on track. Don’t be fooled by Bruno winning. He could win with almost anything.
cplus is offline  
Old 07-24-2019, 07:44 AM
  #477  
Tech Adept
iTrader: (1)
 
Tremor24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 130
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I’m not sure if it’s simply the rotary dampers that make the mid motor work so well. The Awesomatix also went to much longer front and rear arms at about the same time as moving to the mid motor (+9mm front and +8mm rear) which is not a straightforward task with the types of arms most cars use. Also, when I switched to mid motor on my previously run Awesomatix cars I noticed the tuning window was much more narrow and the setups were much more particular before they were any faster. The same may be true for other conversions and the ideal setups may not be found yet (if they exist).

Last edited by Tremor24; 08-02-2019 at 05:56 AM.
Tremor24 is offline  
Old 07-24-2019, 08:04 AM
  #478  
Tech Elite
iTrader: (13)
 
CristianTabush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,126
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

Throwing my 2 cents in as a car designer who has tested the two designs back to back and also has seen a few top drivers prefer their cars with the Zero Tribe Xray Conversion to the conventional layout (and seen some not prefer it as well!)

Equal length drivetrains cars, AKA mid motor are much easier to drive hard. Just by changing the drivetrain and chassis layout the cars become much more stable and have superior grip on corner exit. Not having the pendulum of the motor in the back gives a much more confident feel when driving. We have not noticed a decrease in steering due to the motor going forward. However, having the motor be more towards the front and having the belts applying power equally allow the car to pull itself out of the corner more effectively. As an added benefit, they wire up much more nicely.

This chassis layout is also much easier on tires. A pretty substantial increase in tire life has been noticed. This is really a plus on asphalt on hot days as the tires do not overheat as much over a run.

There are many reasons why we did not use Equal Length drivetrains in the past. I think the biggest reason was the amount of power being run. In the days of the TA05, OVA, etc, we were not running the power we have today. A more aggressive car with the motor towards the back created a quicker car. With increased power, the new "old" layout is better suited to lay down the power appropriately. Couple that with the new cab forward bodies (which I still don't think they create much more downforce) which moves the aero pressure point to the front of the car to get increased steering (much like they did with offroad buggies) and the benefit seems to compound.

While I don't believe the cars are mind numbingly faster, they seem to be at least equally as fast and much easier to drive. I do believe the design is the way forward. If companies do not want to develop the mid motor cars, they will lose market share and pace over time.
CristianTabush is offline  
Old 07-24-2019, 08:16 AM
  #479  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chatham Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,351
Default

Yes,development is fast paced with AMX.. while most std. TC manufactures make only a few small improvements per season, AMX seems to make half a dozen per season. But back to the BD9. The car is really good right out of the box if not the best overall out of the box TC available. I'm almost afraid to change it but I know there is still considerable performance gain to be found in a std TC. Gotta go all in to make gains.
DavidNERODease is offline  
Old 07-24-2019, 09:12 AM
  #480  
Tech Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chatham Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,351
Default Homework

These guys really did their homework.


DavidNERODease is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.