144LikesSchumacher Eclipse 2 1:12 chassis
09-27-2018, 09:09 AM - Wikipost
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09-27-2018, 11:13 AM
#2
Tech Master
A very nice update from Schumacher! Dammit, why are their so many great cars now!
09-28-2018, 04:44 PM
#4
I think It's finally time to give 12th scale a try again.
09-30-2018, 04:30 AM
#5
Tech Adept
I am very surprised by the new design of the front!
It sacrifices the only state of the art front suspension with defined damping (tubes!) on the market. The damping in the front is actually the only remaining way to basically further improve a PanCar, as it gives better traction and control to the whole car. Everything else was/is already out there from every chassis on the market.
The "new" front suspension design is basically from the 1980´s introduced by Associateds 12L (in a better way!). D
Damping here is based on friction, which also is not favourably designed by using the short bore of the axle arm (hub-carrier). Maybe they can control this by well chosen material combination.
Also adjustability of roll center is gone. (Its now in plane with the track surface)
From suspension perspective the car is now a step back to the Atom, but with PanCar spec.
BR Erhard
It sacrifices the only state of the art front suspension with defined damping (tubes!) on the market. The damping in the front is actually the only remaining way to basically further improve a PanCar, as it gives better traction and control to the whole car. Everything else was/is already out there from every chassis on the market.
The "new" front suspension design is basically from the 1980´s introduced by Associateds 12L (in a better way!). D
Damping here is based on friction, which also is not favourably designed by using the short bore of the axle arm (hub-carrier). Maybe they can control this by well chosen material combination.
Also adjustability of roll center is gone. (Its now in plane with the track surface)
From suspension perspective the car is now a step back to the Atom, but with PanCar spec.
BR Erhard
09-30-2018, 06:01 AM
#6
I am very surprised by the new design of the front!
It sacrifices the only state of the art front suspension with defined damping (tubes!) on the market. The damping in the front is actually the only remaining way to basically further improve a PanCar, as it gives better traction and control to the whole car. Everything else was/is already out there from every chassis on the market.
The "new" front suspension design is basically from the 1980´s introduced by Associateds 12L (in a better way!). D
Damping here is based on friction, which also is not favourably designed by using the short bore of the axle arm (hub-carrier). Maybe they can control this by well chosen material combination.
Also adjustability of roll center is gone. (Its now in plane with the track surface)
From suspension perspective the car is now a step back to the Atom, but with PanCar spec.
BR Erhard
It sacrifices the only state of the art front suspension with defined damping (tubes!) on the market. The damping in the front is actually the only remaining way to basically further improve a PanCar, as it gives better traction and control to the whole car. Everything else was/is already out there from every chassis on the market.
The "new" front suspension design is basically from the 1980´s introduced by Associateds 12L (in a better way!). D
Damping here is based on friction, which also is not favourably designed by using the short bore of the axle arm (hub-carrier). Maybe they can control this by well chosen material combination.
Also adjustability of roll center is gone. (Its now in plane with the track surface)
From suspension perspective the car is now a step back to the Atom, but with PanCar spec.
BR Erhard
And you know that they say about something simple - its reliable!
09-30-2018, 09:58 AM
#7
Tech Adept
I experimented a little with front end damping and must say its a great difference on uneven surface, less on plane surface. Its more important the faster you go also.
And for sure, a simple system can not provide a well defined damping, nor can it be adjusted. The only thing you could do is lubricate with viscous oil, but that would not keep the performance for long.
But as you sayed, lets just wait for the first reviews.
BR Erhard
09-30-2018, 10:11 AM
#8
The Front end might work fine, I think the biggest thing to take from this, is the robustness of the Spindle design, and perhaps it works quite well at maintaining the tires contact patch? I do not know for certain, but I would like to give it a try.
09-30-2018, 12:38 PM
#9
Tech Master
iTrader: (6)
New front end looks simple, rigid, and strong. Obviously it’s going to be critical that the steering blocks slide nicely on the kingpins with or without syrup added for dampening. Looks like ride height is adjusted easy enough via adding or removing the U4865 spacers that go beneath the steering block? And caster appears to be set via the U3131 spacers that go beneath the lower arm (thicker ones up front & thinner ones at the rear mounting screws). What I don’t see is a way to adjust camber. Perhaps with optional top crossbars?
09-30-2018, 10:36 PM
#11
Tech Adept
BR Erhard.
P.S.: I hope the front end of Eclipse 1 still fits the E2. Hole pattern of chassis plate appears to be the same there :-)
10-03-2018, 11:33 PM
#13
Hi there from the UK (and hi Jamie!). The car in more or less has been run in it's current form for several months now in the UK nationals and other meetings in both 13.5 and mod, and has proven to be both fast and easy to work on. A lot of people seem put off by the rear of both this and the Eclipse 1. Don't be, it may look different but it works. We received our cars just before last weekend and ran on a test day last Sunday and was the fastest car we have ever had out of the box with the setup shown on the back of the manual. It was even faster after a few track specific tweaks.
Feel free to ask questions, if I don't know the answer myself I can find out.
Yes, the old front end does fit on the current car.
The pivot can be placed in 2 different positions to allow for higher/lower grip.
The chassis flex can be changed by using posts in different positions on the top deck.
The front may be simple, and yes reminds me of an old Corally too, but has been back to backed with the older front and is at least just as quick.
A small anecdote. A few months ago, the lead designer of the Eclipse 2 entered a UK modified national with an Atom CC GT12 converted to LMP spec by removing all the weight and adding an Eclipse rear axle. He was 2nd in the A main with it.
Feel free to ask questions, if I don't know the answer myself I can find out.
Yes, the old front end does fit on the current car.
The pivot can be placed in 2 different positions to allow for higher/lower grip.
The chassis flex can be changed by using posts in different positions on the top deck.
The front may be simple, and yes reminds me of an old Corally too, but has been back to backed with the older front and is at least just as quick.
A small anecdote. A few months ago, the lead designer of the Eclipse 2 entered a UK modified national with an Atom CC GT12 converted to LMP spec by removing all the weight and adding an Eclipse rear axle. He was 2nd in the A main with it.
Last edited by TrevCoult; 10-04-2018 at 02:04 AM.
10-04-2018, 08:47 AM
#15
Tech Adept
As I said, its an Atom !
Nevertheless, great info here!
What maintainance is needed on the front and how often?
Is the new front still competitive against the old one in open class on bumpy conditions?
BR Erhard
