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Old 05-08-2006, 12:13 PM   #226
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dgullickson,

Thank for that bit of info...I would of never determined that different motors from the same type (CO27, P2K2, Monster) could require different gearing without banging my head on the wall a few times.

To recap, the properties I associate with these types of motors are general guidelines ie:

P2k2 - Torquey
Monster - RPMish
CO27 - Torquey & RPM

Different CO27's will be geared differently to acheive best possible performance on track. This obviosuly applies to any other type of motor, right? This could explain why racers have many motors of the same type.

All very interesting - Thanks for the info
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Old 05-08-2006, 12:26 PM   #227
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To go with the gearing arguement... I have 2 CO27s that are 5 teeth apart as of now... and I think when I get some time at the track, they may mind up another tooth apart... we'll see.
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Old 05-08-2006, 01:02 PM   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliberX
dgullickson,

Thank for that bit of info...I would of never determined that different motors from the same type (CO27, P2K2, Monster) could require different gearing without banging my head on the wall a few times.

To recap, the properties I associate with these types of motors are general guidelines ie:

P2k2 - Torquey
Monster - RPMish
CO27 - Torquey & RPM

Different CO27's will be geared differently to acheive best possible performance on track. This obviosuly applies to any other type of motor, right? This could explain why racers have many motors of the same type.

All very interesting - Thanks for the info
Total agreement here - I have seen substantial differences between motors of the same design in terms of RPM and Torque. Generally, power (in watts) tends to be very similar among good motors, but the balance between RPM and torque varies quite a bit. You'll definitely have to experiment each time you get a new motor, even if it is the same base motor from the same tuner as before.
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Old 05-08-2006, 02:16 PM   #229
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Take 2 or more motors (same can) that were Dyno'd on the same Dyno. Now look at thier power band. Some might be tight and some might be more Broad, hence why you need to gear same cans differently sometimes..
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Old 05-08-2006, 02:24 PM   #230
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Thanks all for the info. If my posts shed a bad light on Team Brood - I take it back.

Motor still sucks, I came to realise through this discussion that this is not Team Brood's fault.

Time to get some F-Brushes, work on the gearing. I just finished the first racing series at our track, and although I have somewhat of a feel for motors on the track, I don't have the experience to gear from it.

Is there a quantitive variable I can use to help me gear until I get the "feel". I'm thinking along of end bell temp? If temp can be used, what kind of temp should I be looking at, and measured where (can, endbell?)
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Old 05-08-2006, 03:51 PM   #231
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Temp is a good way to go when playing with gearing, but it can be a little odd at the same time.

I started with a motor at 7.5... moved to 7.3 and it got a little hotter. I was aprehensive to do so.. but I went to 7.0. Came off a little hotter yet... but the motor was getting better. 6.8... even better... little cooler 6.6... even cooler, but TONS more rip. Going to try a little lower yet next time at the track... got faster every time I added a tooth to the gearing. (lap times)

Just remember to run a few laps... pull off and check the motor temp and give it a sniff. If its all good... run some more and see how it goes.

Above all else - WATCH YOUR LAP TIMES!
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Old 05-08-2006, 04:06 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliberX
Thanks all for the info. If my posts shed a bad light on Team Brood - I take it back.

Motor still sucks, I came to realise through this discussion that this is not Team Brood's fault.

Time to get some F-Brushes, work on the gearing. I just finished the first racing series at our track, and although I have somewhat of a feel for motors on the track, I don't have the experience to gear from it.

Is there a quantitive variable I can use to help me gear until I get the "feel". I'm thinking along of end bell temp? If temp can be used, what kind of temp should I be looking at, and measured where (can, endbell?)
Temp is a good starting point - I would take some ratios that you see on the forums here and use it as a starting guide. Run the motor and check the temp - use a temperature gun or some sort of thermal device though. The finger test is not accurate enough.

Also, I know I'll probably get slammed for this by the non-dyno guys, but I would suggest finding someone at your local club that has a TurboDyno or a Robitronic and just have them run a pass on the motors for you. If you have a motor that works already well for you, use it as a baseline, and then dyno your new motors. If they have more torque and less RPM, then lower the gear ratio a bit on the new motor. More RPM, and less torque, then do the opposite.

Lap times are always the best guide, but sometimes you can get a bit of a head-start on your tuning efforts if you look at the characteristics of your old motor, and compare them with new ones that you are going to introduce into your rotation.
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Old 05-08-2006, 04:45 PM   #233
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For Stock I judge by lap times and feel before 5 minutes is up. To be fast in Stock your gonna have a hot motor.
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Old 05-29-2006, 02:01 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floodo1
using a fantom dyno just to get peak numbers that you'd pring on labels is a waste and folly both.

the folly has been pointed out....the peak, label type, numbers arent worth much. high power motors run poorly and torque doesnt tell you enuf.

the waste is that the graphs are the whole POINT of having a computer controlled dyno, esp one that measures acceleration.

the best way to use the fantom is to start with a motor that you know. something that you run all the time and know it well. dyno it and save the file. then dyno another motor and compare the graphs to each other. by doing this its easy to spot that some motors need way more or less gearing based on their torque (and hence power) curves. then run the new motor, try some different gearings.
repeat with other motors until you learn how to interpret curve variations and gear accordignly, as well as realize when one curve just isnt as good as another

as has been stated, used properly the fantom is a great tool, used improperly it will ruin you
So what am i supposed to look for on a fantom dyno? i \haveone and when i had fast high number motors they wern't as fast. Is it the spool up time?
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Old 05-29-2006, 02:04 PM   #235
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waht would be a good brush spring combination for the Cobalt stock motor. And what would you gear for a final drive ratio for trackside raceway in Milwaukee WI for rubber tire? (Home of the Novak race)
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Old 05-30-2006, 12:45 PM   #236
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anybody like to share what they have to say?
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Old 05-30-2006, 12:49 PM   #237
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Hey Lester.... Well only having raced there 1 time I can get you a good starting point. For rubber tires gear around 29mm roll out to start on a CO27 with F brushes and red springs installed.. Hope this helps..
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Old 05-30-2006, 12:58 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Tag
Hey Lester.... Well only having raced there 1 time I can get you a good starting point. For rubber tires gear around 29mm roll out to start on a CO27 with F brushes and red springs installed.. Hope this helps..

Ok i'm not familular with the 29mm roll out and i don't know how to calcualte something like that could you please explain?
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Old 05-30-2006, 09:37 PM   #239
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ACTMCRC has a gear calculator to help you work out rolllout

www.actmcrc.org.au/technical.htm
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Old 05-30-2006, 10:17 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leester
Ok i'm not familular with the 29mm roll out and i don't know how to calcualte something like that could you please explain?
Isn't that a TAOB racing avatar and you don't know rollouts
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