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Reasons why EuroTruck is dieing

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Reasons why EuroTruck is dieing

Old 07-19-2018, 10:30 AM
  #46  
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The Idea of a spec classed based on one chassis is a good one , The Tamiya TT01-02 is not that chassis ..Tamiya cheap cars are just for selling expensive Hop up parts , nothing more.

If you want a successful Beginner / Spec class it should be a less expensive kit ( BT4, TC4, Sakura )that could be used to go to the Next racing step (VTA , Spec 21.5, ) as for a Brushless motor combo as long as its not too fast a (HW 25.5 ,HW21.5, Reedy spec)should be ok.

For it to be succsessful the Major Manufacturers would have to be behind it like in the old days withe the Trinity / TRC spec series.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:25 AM
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The old Trinity spec series was the first thing I thought of when someone mentioned a spec chassis that would be good for everyone to run. At some point we have to find a way to teach the new racers that they are going to lose when they race and that it will give them something ultimate to work towards. That's what keeps me coming back all the time. It's a reality of racing that you have to accept, otherwise it's going to hurt a lot more than it needs to.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:33 AM
  #48  
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I'm of the opinion that if a track or group of racers wants to deem a specific class for newbies, then the director better have a firm commitment to allowing only those drivers in the class. Because a class is either spec based or inexpensive to run DOES NOT equate to a class that should be deemed for band new racers only. Hell, I used to watch those trucks race on TV when the novelty was brand new. Having such large bodies always makes for some of the coolest and diverse paint jobs out there. When I was just a young kid, I always wanted to be a semi-truck driver. But some of you are suggesting I shouldn't be allowed in this class because it's inexpensive and I can drive? Hhhmmm, glad that idea hasn't floated into our track.....cause I'm really considering one.

If you're going to have a novice class for brand new racers, you better call it just that. You better decide on firm requirements and you better decide on firm rules.....like "run what you brung". If none of them can really drive, it doesn't really matter what they use. I've seen this work. However, let's be honest, these are the very same people that aren't too sure about spending any money on the hobby as a general rule. They're not even sure if they'll like it or want to stick with it or not. Often they can't or won't make the commitment to show up every time.....and the list goes on and on. They have to feel out the whole process. It's much deeper than experienced racers in the same field - because no one set parameters that is CLEARLY named and ruled for true beginners, not assumed so because it's spec or inexpensive.

If you want to make the Euro truck your entry level class for beginners only, then so be it. But you'd better announce that from the very start. Again, Euro truck, vta, RJ Legends and other similar classes can all be considered relatively inexpensive to field a car in but that does not, in any way, shape, or form correlate to a beginners or novice class unless your track has deemed it that way since the inception and held fast to a set of rules and requirements. At the carpet track in Daytona, fast vta lap times are now just about 1.2 seconds or so off of the fast 17.5 laps. It's not a beginner's class and was never designed to be so. Spec does not = novice.....unless your facility introduces it that way. But outside your facility other places may operate totally different. That's why "run what you brung" can allow people just to get a feel for driving around a closed course while maybe not having too spend much, if anything. Do they even need to spend a couple hundred dollars to see if they like closed course racing, especially when they may already own a street basher? Remember, some already have cars....street cars that don't fit into a current class, but to them, it's a head scratching episode and a complete turn-off for them to realize what they already own, invested in, and enjoy running isn't acceptable....and in fact, is considered useless for them to start with. They're overwhelmed to begin with when they walk up to the track in first place and look at everything going on. Now they can't join because their street basher doesn't fit into a novice class? I think if you find a way to get as many true beginners as you can on the track for no more than just an entry fee, you'll be much more successful at cultivating a new group of future racers.

Stop trying to force the newcomers into a specific box. I've seen buggies, trucks, pancars and touring car based entries all out there together. If someone doesn't have anything to start with, then maybe you guide them in a direction of buying something that they start with in the beginners class and use it to move up to a formal class using the same chassis. The key is letting new comers use what they have initially and spending as little as possible to actually get on the track and race....and especially experience the FUN we know this hobby brings.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:55 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by vivo quevas View Post
First I want to say u love this class and I hate this class. What I love close racing the fun of figuring out how to drive fast without the truck bouncing up and down.
What I hate is the motors that we have to race if you don't have a motor that is massaged persuaded to give all the RPM it can produce you are dead in the water.
Complaints without solutions is useless so my recomendation is going to brushless motors. Either a fixed timing motor or one brand of motor Similar to what Tamiya did for the mini class. Yes I know their are racer pushing the envelope on the motors in that class too but at least the motors will be competitive longer then a couple of race weekends.
What do you think am I all wet or what the truck comes with a brushed or business ESC I say go brushless.

As one of the guys envoled in organizing the Cen Cal Challenge in Fresno CA. In October we are kicking around the idea of going to either using a fixed timing motor or the Reedy 21.5 that is raced in the mini class. I looking for the same lap times the trucks ran with brushed motor so we may have to experiment with gear ratio to do it but I think it's something that needs to be done to save this class. Last year we would have 8 to 10 trucks on a race day now we have none I know judging by the smiles of the guys racing trucks they were having fun till the moment the motors got out of hand.!!!
I think your ideas certainly have merit. I invite you to look at what our state series is doing for the upcoming season. While the rental idea may not fit your exact idea/need, the reasons behind the ideas of implementing this spec motor is the same as your need. Take a look.....we're excited to see what happens. Dave Vera is working hard on behalf of all the Florida racers to keep this series alive and well. BTW, it's the longest running road racing series in the U.S.

FSEARA On Roads New Handout Stock Touring car class.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:07 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by ASM View Post
I'm of the opinion that if a track or group of racers wants to deem a specific class for newbies, then the director better have a firm commitment to allowing only those drivers in the class. Because a class is either spec based or inexpensive to run DOES NOT equate to a class that should be deemed for band new racers only. Hell, I used to watch those trucks race on TV when the novelty was brand new. Having such large bodies always makes for some of the coolest and diverse paint jobs out there. When I was just a young kid, I always wanted to be a semi-truck driver. But some of you are suggesting I shouldn't be allowed in this class because it's inexpensive and I can drive? Hhhmmm, glad that idea hasn't floated into our track.....cause I'm really considering one.

If you're going to have a novice class for brand new racers, you better call it just that. You better decide on firm requirements and you better decide on firm rules.....like "run what you brung". If none of them can really drive, it doesn't really matter what they use. I've seen this work. However, let's be honest, these are the very same people that aren't too sure about spending any money on the hobby as a general rule. They're not even sure if they'll like it or want to stick with it or not. Often they can't or won't make the commitment to show up every time.....and the list goes on and on. They have to feel out the whole process. It's much deeper than experienced racers in the same field - because no one set parameters that is CLEARLY named and ruled for true beginners, not assumed so because it's spec or inexpensive.

If you want to make the Euro truck your entry level class for beginners only, then so be it. But you'd better announce that from the very start. Again, Euro truck, vta, RJ Legends and other similar classes can all be considered relatively inexpensive to field a car in but that does not, in any way, shape, or form correlate to a beginners or novice class unless your track has deemed it that way since the inception and held fast to a set of rules and requirements. At the carpet track in Daytona, fast vta lap times are now just about 1.2 seconds or so off of the fast 17.5 laps. It's not a beginner's class and was never designed to be so. Spec does not = novice.....unless your facility introduces it that way. But outside your facility other places may operate totally different. That's why "run what you brung" can allow people just to get a feel for driving around a closed course while maybe not having too spend much, if anything. Do they even need to spend a couple hundred dollars to see if they like closed course racing, especially when they may already own a street basher? Remember, some already have cars....street cars that don't fit into a current class, but to them, it's a head scratching episode and a complete turn-off for them to realize what they already own, invested in, and enjoy running isn't acceptable....and in fact, is considered useless for them to start with. They're overwhelmed to begin with when they walk up to the track in first place and look at everything going on. Now they can't join because their street basher doesn't fit into a novice class? I think if you find a way to get as many true beginners as you can on the track for no more than just an entry fee, you'll be much more successful at cultivating a new group of future racers.

Stop trying to force the newcomers into a specific box. I've seen buggies, trucks, pancars and touring car based entries all out there together. If someone doesn't have anything to start with, then maybe you guide them in a direction of buying something that they start with in the beginners class and use it to move up to a formal class using the same chassis. The key is letting new comers use what they have initially and spending as little as possible to actually get on the track and race....and especially experience the FUN we know this hobby brings.
No I think a Spec class should allow everyone to race it , But go buy a good set of rules.
I am racing a class at Leisure hours called Trophy Cup , which is a spec HW 21.5 motor Gravity GT tires , limited 7000 battery, It happens to be mostly middle of the road and newer drivers and its a lot of fun, good racing. The cars range from awesomatix-To TC4s but the spread is usually just 1 lap.

Truly the only class that should limit drivers is Sportsman /Novice.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:50 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Lone Drifter View Post
No I think a Spec class should allow everyone to race it , But go buy a good set of rules.
I am racing a class at Leisure hours called Trophy Cup , which is a spec HW 21.5 motor Gravity GT tires , limited 7000 battery, It happens to be mostly middle of the road and newer drivers and its a lot of fun, good racing. The cars range from awesomatix-To TC4s but the spread is usually just 1 lap.

Truly the only class that should limit drivers is Sportsman /Novice.
Sounds like a lot of fun!

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Old 07-19-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ASM View Post
I'm of the opinion that if a track or group of racers wants to deem a specific class for newbies, then the director better have a firm commitment to allowing only those drivers in the class. Because a class is either spec based or inexpensive to run DOES NOT equate to a class that should be deemed for band new racers only. Hell, I used to watch those trucks race on TV when the novelty was brand new. Having such large bodies always makes for some of the coolest and diverse paint jobs out there. When I was just a young kid, I always wanted to be a semi-truck driver. But some of you are suggesting I shouldn't be allowed in this class because it's inexpensive and I can drive? Hhhmmm, glad that idea hasn't floated into our track.....cause I'm really considering one.

If you're going to have a novice class for brand new racers, you better call it just that. You better decide on firm requirements and you better decide on firm rules.....like "run what you brung". If none of them can really drive, it doesn't really matter what they use. I've seen this work. However, let's be honest, these are the very same people that aren't too sure about spending any money on the hobby as a general rule. They're not even sure if they'll like it or want to stick with it or not. Often they can't or won't make the commitment to show up every time.....and the list goes on and on. They have to feel out the whole process. It's much deeper than experienced racers in the same field - because no one set parameters that is CLEARLY named and ruled for true beginners, not assumed so because it's spec or inexpensive.

If you want to make the Euro truck your entry level class for beginners only, then so be it. But you'd better announce that from the very start. Again, Euro truck, vta, RJ Legends and other similar classes can all be considered relatively inexpensive to field a car in but that does not, in any way, shape, or form correlate to a beginners or novice class unless your track has deemed it that way since the inception and held fast to a set of rules and requirements. At the carpet track in Daytona, fast vta lap times are now just about 1.2 seconds or so off of the fast 17.5 laps. It's not a beginner's class and was never designed to be so. Spec does not = novice.....unless your facility introduces it that way. But outside your facility other places may operate totally different. That's why "run what you brung" can allow people just to get a feel for driving around a closed course while maybe not having too spend much, if anything. Do they even need to spend a couple hundred dollars to see if they like closed course racing, especially when they may already own a street basher? Remember, some already have cars....street cars that don't fit into a current class, but to them, it's a head scratching episode and a complete turn-off for them to realize what they already own, invested in, and enjoy running isn't acceptable....and in fact, is considered useless for them to start with. They're overwhelmed to begin with when they walk up to the track in first place and look at everything going on. Now they can't join because their street basher doesn't fit into a novice class? I think if you find a way to get as many true beginners as you can on the track for no more than just an entry fee, you'll be much more successful at cultivating a new group of future racers.

Stop trying to force the newcomers into a specific box. I've seen buggies, trucks, pancars and touring car based entries all out there together. If someone doesn't have anything to start with, then maybe you guide them in a direction of buying something that they start with in the beginners class and use it to move up to a formal class using the same chassis. The key is letting new comers use what they have initially and spending as little as possible to actually get on the track and race....and especially experience the FUN we know this hobby brings.
Preach!
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:28 PM
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I'll give another current example of how experienced racers steal a 'Novice' or 'Beginners' class. I've already talked about what they've done to the EuroTruck class and that is still ongoing at my club. I've also seen this happen at another club that I visit. So that's two perfect real life examples.

For months now I've talked here, and at my club, about how the Traxxas 4-tTec 2.0 (brushed) would be an ideal newb class car. Super durable, plenty fast, handles great, parts availability at virtually every local hobby shop, parts are cheap, and the cars are easy to work on. RTR minus a body for ~$200. Swap the 12T out for a 15T or higher T motor to keep the speeds down - $25. I recommend one other reliability upgrade that would be allowed and optional - aluminum heavy duty c-hubs - $25. Add a body of choice, paint a single color, and go racing. Sounds perfect right?

Reality check. The club bought one to have on hand for visitors/newbs to try out should they visit the track. Great idea! However, when the car wasn't being used by a visitor/newb, the 'regulars' (that means the highly experienced guys) would use it to bash around with. The 'regulars' saw how much fun they were to drive so a new class got started, the Traxxas 4-Tec 2.0 class! Guess who runs in it - all of the best racers in the club of course! Guess what else happened? Even though there were strict rules laid out for running them, in a matter of weeks, it has mysteriously and subtly morphed into a never ending science experiment to make them faster and handle better. We had a 6000mah battery limit - guys are running 8000mah LiHV's. No changes to chassis - guys put sway bars on. Shock oil and diff oil experiments, tire compounds/chemicals, bodies and wings - it never ends. Ever.

I bought a 4-Tec thinking it would be fun to run on equal equipment footing as the experienced guys. Well, that was the plan. Several races into it, my experience so far is that it's been totally overwhelming and not at all what I thought it would be. The relentless drive to change the basic 4-Tec setup, and to win, has been just as overwhelming as it is in VTA. No difference at all.

There will never be a Traxxas 4-Tec 2.0 newb class at my club. It is gone forever, just like EuroTruck.
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Old 07-19-2018, 02:44 PM
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I'm not sure why you would declare dead a group of RC vehicles( I hesitate to use the term class since they are just a rebodied entry level Tamiya basher I think) that are being touted as the hottest thing since the original RC-10. Across Europe you can go to a track and see them race on a regular basis. When I first saw them in the 80's I believe, I was spellbound by the hulking monsters that wouldn't turn or stop with huge clouds of steam coming out of the wheels from the water cooled brakes, bouncing off the curbs and each other in an attempt to be the first one to get to wherever it was they were going. They were and I guess still are an incredible oddity. Now we have them in scale. We think(because of entry level pricing) that they should be the sole territory of a group of participants that we haven't found a way to get to the track yet. Nope. We haven't. But! We want to keep out the experienced drivers because there is a fear that the skill level will somehow embarrass a group we don't have yet. You know, top drivers like to have fun too. It's a lot of work through the course of a race day to keep up with the car maintenance as well as track changes. It is really nice to throw something down that you just drive for the giggles they provide. As far as keeping the delicate vitamin D deficient basement denizens away from the grizzled parking lot veterans so they won't be able to see that life isn't fair and only one guy wins, we do have a method in place just for that. It is and always has been called the "B,C,D" and so on. A true way to gauge yourself against both them and yourself. Not sure why we have to be afraid of competition.

Dead? It hasn't even been born yet. Modifications? If it doesn't come in the box, it doesn't go on the car(or truck). Period. OK, ok. Bearings and maybe a battery that isn't as specialized but beyond that, the more you mess with it the more you do harm to it. Don't believe it? Just look at everything we as "racers" have touched to improve or make it easier or cheaper for everyone. Spec that!!
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:35 PM
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The rules are simple for this class. What comes in the box is legal. Just add bearings and a battery.It is what it is a plastic TC kit. It's nothing fancy and it was never intended to be. They have plenty down here in Fla and have a fun time racing them just the way the rules are written.
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JC3 View Post
I'll give another current example of how experienced racers steal a 'Novice' or 'Beginners' class. I've already talked about what they've done to the EuroTruck class and that is still ongoing at my club. I've also seen this happen at another club that I visit. So that's two perfect real life examples.

For months now I've talked here, and at my club, about how the Traxxas 4-tTec 2.0 (brushed) would be an ideal newb class car. Super durable, plenty fast, handles great, parts availability at virtually every local hobby shop, parts are cheap, and the cars are easy to work on. RTR minus a body for ~$200. Swap the 12T out for a 15T or higher T motor to keep the speeds down - $25. I recommend one other reliability upgrade that would be allowed and optional - aluminum heavy duty c-hubs - $25. Add a body of choice, paint a single color, and go racing. Sounds perfect right?

Reality check. The club bought one to have on hand for visitors/newbs to try out should they visit the track. Great idea! However, when the car wasn't being used by a visitor/newb, the 'regulars' (that means the highly experienced guys) would use it to bash around with. The 'regulars' saw how much fun they were to drive so a new class got started, the Traxxas 4-Tec 2.0 class! Guess who runs in it - all of the best racers in the club of course! Guess what else happened? Even though there were strict rules laid out for running them, in a matter of weeks, it has mysteriously and subtly morphed into a never ending science experiment to make them faster and handle better. We had a 6000mah battery limit - guys are running 8000mah LiHV's. No changes to chassis - guys put sway bars on. Shock oil and diff oil experiments, tire compounds/chemicals, bodies and wings - it never ends. Ever.

I bought a 4-Tec thinking it would be fun to run on equal equipment footing as the experienced guys. Well, that was the plan. Several races into it, my experience so far is that it's been totally overwhelming and not at all what I thought it would be. The relentless drive to change the basic 4-Tec setup, and to win, has been just as overwhelming as it is in VTA. No difference at all.

There will never be a Traxxas 4-Tec 2.0 newb class at my club. It is gone forever, just like EuroTruck.
Swapping a 12T Titan with a 15T whatever, won't change a thing. The old masters who enjoy tinkering, will still be able to zap the can, break in the brushes with a slave motor in a toilet bowl, and splash on some comm drops. Changing a TT01 with a 4-Tec, is simply replacing the apple with the banana. They are both entry level cars that have an abundance of plastic, and can be easily sourced for parts. I would even argue that the Tamiya has better global distribution of parts.

This class wasn't really meant to endure as a stand alone class - it's using a 10 year old platform. It was meant as a breath of fresh air for the old racers, and a stepping stone for those to get their feet wet, without having to blow up an Awesomatix on the first corner.

This all reminds me of real car racing, where the right way to start is to show up with an old rusted Mazda RX7 or E30 BM'er. The guy who shows up to his first race in a Lamborghini and gets his butt handed to him, becomes a laughing stock and never shows up again. The guy who blows corners and misses shifting points with his first run in the rusted RX7 can either ditch his $500 car and walk away with no shame, or learn more about the sport and appreciate it. These Tamiya trucks are our latest version of rusted RX7's. New racers get a chance to experience what we do, and old racers get to appreciate something they may have lost somewhere along the way. Newbs don't need an Awesomatix and 4PX to get started. If the newb ends up liking this, then the $175 spent on a Tamiya will just be a drop in the proverbial bucket.

Having "regulars" mixed with newbs is fine. I think a few have already alluded to the mains system. Nothing wrong with having a close race between 5 guys in the C-Main. Don't have to win to have a good time. Plus the newbs have a focused goal to strive for, with experienced guys running the exact same cars, but putting 5 more laps in the exact same amount of time.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:17 PM
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Really just use the stuff used in real touring car races. The top 5 get added weight the next race meet. Pick a number ie: 100g or 150g for first and work your way down. If it doesn't slow the fast guys down make it higher. Also make them run it on top of the battery up high . It works at the full size BTCC. Try different things.
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
I'm not sure why you would declare dead a group of RC vehicles( I hesitate to use the term class since they are just a rebodied entry level Tamiya basher I think) that are being touted as the hottest thing since the original RC-10. Across Europe you can go to a track and see them race on a regular basis. When I first saw them in the 80's I believe, I was spellbound by the hulking monsters that wouldn't turn or stop with huge clouds of steam coming out of the wheels from the water cooled brakes, bouncing off the curbs and each other in an attempt to be the first one to get to wherever it was they were going. They were and I guess still are an incredible oddity. Now we have them in scale. We think(because of entry level pricing) that they should be the sole territory of a group of participants that we haven't found a way to get to the track yet. Nope. We haven't. But! We want to keep out the experienced drivers because there is a fear that the skill level will somehow embarrass a group we don't have yet. You know, top drivers like to have fun too. It's a lot of work through the course of a race day to keep up with the car maintenance as well as track changes. It is really nice to throw something down that you just drive for the giggles they provide. As far as keeping the delicate vitamin D deficient basement denizens away from the grizzled parking lot veterans so they won't be able to see that life isn't fair and only one guy wins, we do have a method in place just for that. It is and always has been called the "B,C,D" and so on. A true way to gauge yourself against both them and yourself. Not sure why we have to be afraid of competition.

Dead? It hasn't even been born yet. Modifications? If it doesn't come in the box, it doesn't go on the car(or truck). Period. OK, ok. Bearings and maybe a battery that isn't as specialized but beyond that, the more you mess with it the more you do harm to it. Don't believe it? Just look at everything we as "racers" have touched to improve or make it easier or cheaper for everyone. Spec that!!
Dying is probably not right choice. But declining. It seems that as usual in our hobby, it depends on region for how well classes are going. I’m not too suprised there’s been a decline or a shift in who’s running euro truck. Depending on how long you have been in hobby, view of what Tamiya is will vary greatly. For those in 20 years plus, can almost hear the nostalgia feelings in post. For us that got in over last 10 years. I don’t see or feel this. Their just the brand with funny, toyish vehicles. Or they keep putting out new bodies on 20-30 year old vehicles. I went back to look at when it was introduced by a local track. And true, they never did call it a “rookie” class. Did try to confirm that it would be a box stock class thought. And with as much as some love to constantly tinker with this or that setting, it would not appeal to the experienced racers. At least not the must win crowd.
As for RC racing in Europe. Don’t see the connection, only about 30 percent of Americans ever go overseas. If it’s run over there at every track great.

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Old 07-20-2018, 05:29 AM
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The only thing that is not dyieng or declining is the amount of Al Bundy fans , who else scored 4 touchdowns in one single game while at Polk High !
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Old 07-20-2018, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JC3 View Post
I'll give another current example of how experienced racers steal a 'Novice' or 'Beginners' class. I've already talked about what they've done to the EuroTruck class and that is still ongoing at my club. I've also seen this happen at another club that I visit. So that's two perfect real life examples.

For months now I've talked here, and at my club, about how the Traxxas 4-tTec 2.0 (brushed) would be an ideal newb class car. Super durable, plenty fast, handles great, parts availability at virtually every local hobby shop, parts are cheap, and the cars are easy to work on. RTR minus a body for ~$200. Swap the 12T out for a 15T or higher T motor to keep the speeds down - $25. I recommend one other reliability upgrade that would be allowed and optional - aluminum heavy duty c-hubs - $25. Add a body of choice, paint a single color, and go racing. Sounds perfect right?

Reality check. The club bought one to have on hand for visitors/newbs to try out should they visit the track. Great idea! However, when the car wasn't being used by a visitor/newb, the 'regulars' (that means the highly experienced guys) would use it to bash around with. The 'regulars' saw how much fun they were to drive so a new class got started, the Traxxas 4-Tec 2.0 class! Guess who runs in it - all of the best racers in the club of course! Guess what else happened? Even though there were strict rules laid out for running them, in a matter of weeks, it has mysteriously and subtly morphed into a never ending science experiment to make them faster and handle better. We had a 6000mah battery limit - guys are running 8000mah LiHV's. No changes to chassis - guys put sway bars on. Shock oil and diff oil experiments, tire compounds/chemicals, bodies and wings - it never ends. Ever.

I bought a 4-Tec thinking it would be fun to run on equal equipment footing as the experienced guys. Well, that was the plan. Several races into it, my experience so far is that it's been totally overwhelming and not at all what I thought it would be. The relentless drive to change the basic 4-Tec setup, and to win, has been just as overwhelming as it is in VTA. No difference at all.

There will never be a Traxxas 4-Tec 2.0 newb class at my club. It is gone forever, just like EuroTruck.
If there are rules against what they're doing then why are they so blatantly getting away with it? That's where the race director should just refuse entry to the guys blatantly cheating.
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