31LikesWhere are pneumatic R/C tires? - The sins of John Dunlop.
07-18-2018, 03:05 PM
#16
If you could, get like a product name or something so I (or someone else) could hunt down more information, that would be awesome.
What I did find.. https://translate.google.com/transla...tm&prev=search Trinity's prototype 4wd touring car!
What I did find.. https://translate.google.com/transla...tm&prev=search Trinity's prototype 4wd touring car!
07-18-2018, 03:07 PM
#17
Hey, here's a translated link to the article! https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.overrc.com/news/news2001/news26032001/news26032001.htmInflatable tires for Touring 1/10 ° electric
Amusingly, they say they work well.
And now, i'm lost digging through a french r/c site.
Amusingly, they say they work well.
And now, i'm lost digging through a french r/c site.
Last edited by Nerobro; 07-18-2018 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Commentary
07-18-2018, 03:34 PM
#18
Hey, here's a translated link to the article! https://translate.google.com/transla...ws26032001.htmInflatable tires for Touring 1/10 ° electric
Amusingly, they say they work well.
And now, i'm lost digging through a french r/c site.
Amusingly, they say they work well.
And now, i'm lost digging through a french r/c site.
Overrc.com is an absolute goldmine. The guy knows his stuff.
If you could, get like a product name or something so I (or someone else) could hunt down more information, that would be awesome.
What I did find.. https://translate.google.com/transla...tm&prev=search Trinity's prototype 4wd touring car!
What I did find.. https://translate.google.com/transla...tm&prev=search Trinity's prototype 4wd touring car!
07-18-2018, 04:34 PM
#19
07-18-2018, 04:48 PM
#20
Tech Prophet
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Hey, here's a translated link to the article! https://translate.google.com/transla...ws26032001.htmInflatable tires for Touring 1/10 ° electric
Amusingly, they say they work well.
And now, i'm lost digging through a french r/c site.
Amusingly, they say they work well.
And now, i'm lost digging through a french r/c site.
07-18-2018, 06:35 PM
#21
Go ahead and look up a Bib Mousse.
A closed cell foam can be altered in many different ways to adjust the performance characteristics of the tire. Consistently and inexpensively. That is why we use it.
The roar rule about not using air pressure is likely a cost control measure from off-road. When we transitioned from hard rubber tires and no inserts to soft rubber and foam inserts there was a time when it was a case of the haves (factory drivers with soft tires) and the have nots (anyone without access to the soft tires). Eventually everyone transitioned to the soft tires, and to prevent air pressure from possibly becoming the next step in the evolution (and a MASSIVE degree of added complexity and cost), roar made the rule.
You have to remember technology has come a long way since then, so the cost on some of the equipment required to set the pressure accurately may have come down some. There are manometers that are $150 dollars, and there are ones that are $2000+ Add in the development cost of tiny air valves that could be reliably implemented onto current cars would add more cost too.
Could it be done as a technical exercise? Maybe. Would it offer a gain worth the cost and compexity? Not likely.
A closed cell foam can be altered in many different ways to adjust the performance characteristics of the tire. Consistently and inexpensively. That is why we use it.
The roar rule about not using air pressure is likely a cost control measure from off-road. When we transitioned from hard rubber tires and no inserts to soft rubber and foam inserts there was a time when it was a case of the haves (factory drivers with soft tires) and the have nots (anyone without access to the soft tires). Eventually everyone transitioned to the soft tires, and to prevent air pressure from possibly becoming the next step in the evolution (and a MASSIVE degree of added complexity and cost), roar made the rule.
You have to remember technology has come a long way since then, so the cost on some of the equipment required to set the pressure accurately may have come down some. There are manometers that are $150 dollars, and there are ones that are $2000+ Add in the development cost of tiny air valves that could be reliably implemented onto current cars would add more cost too.
Could it be done as a technical exercise? Maybe. Would it offer a gain worth the cost and compexity? Not likely.
07-18-2018, 06:42 PM
#22
Oh, and foam tires are still faster than rubber tires. Everyone got sick of turning money into foam dust.
07-18-2018, 08:55 PM
#24
BTW if anyone has more/better pictures of that Trinity TC... I've always wanted to see more.
It's used for off road bikes, where the loss in performance is considered acceptable in comparison to the time it would take to change a tube. It also wears out rather fast, and heats the tires rather badly.
A closed cell foam can be altered in many different ways to adjust the performance characteristics of the tire. Consistently and inexpensively. That is why we use it.
The roar rule about not using air pressure is likely a cost control measure from off-road.
You have to remember technology has come a long way since then, so the cost on some of the equipment required to set the pressure accurately may have come down some. There are manometers that are $150 dollars, and there are ones that are $2000+ Add in the development cost of tiny air valves that could be reliably implemented onto current cars would add more cost too.
Could it be done as a technical exercise? Maybe. Would it offer a gain worth the cost and compexity? Not likely.
Originally Posted by Nerobro
Given there's rules, I expect this has been tired. But by who? And when? Why was it specially called out in the rules?
.... Surprising what you can find out by asking. :-) Now I know it's been done. And it was done for touring cars. And it worked well. :-) And if you were curious, you know now too.
07-18-2018, 09:41 PM
#25
Tech Prophet
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Nice job on finding the info. I’m really suprised it was tried for 1/10. Though guess probably by now shouldn’t be. Few months back I had to explain to someone at the hobby store that had seen too many “running on water” videos. He had assumed that the trucks would float from the air filled tires. Was completely surprised when I showed him a set of unmounted tires.
Now maybe rubber tires for 1/12.......
Now maybe rubber tires for 1/12.......
07-19-2018, 07:22 AM
#26
If you could, get like a product name or something so I (or someone else) could hunt down more information, that would be awesome.
What I did find.. https://translate.google.com/transla...tm&prev=search Trinity's prototype 4wd touring car!
What I did find.. https://translate.google.com/transla...tm&prev=search Trinity's prototype 4wd touring car!
07-19-2018, 08:25 AM
#27
Tech Initiate
07-19-2018, 09:41 AM
#28
Pretty sure these are "closed cell" inserts:
https://www.activrc.com/collections/...nserts-ru-0345
https://www.activrc.com/collections/...nserts-ru-0345
07-19-2018, 10:06 AM
#29
@Nerobro, you never cease to surprise me in good ways!
Allow me to add some small bits of info: foam/bib mousse is used mostly in off road racing, MX and I know for sure in the Dakar Rally among others.
That said, it doesn't mean it only works in off road racing. Quite the contrary it has everything to work to our advantage in RC racing.
The performance loss TC tires have has everything to do with bad/incorrect design, sidewall stiffness is very low and can't be fixed with stiffer foam or increasing tire pressure. By the way, did you know F1 tires have tire pressures of around half of passenger cars? That's because their stiffness comes from construction/design, not air pressure
Developing pneumatic tires for RC would be a waste in resources (and an added complexity) when the problem is laying in front of our eyes.
Allow me to add some small bits of info: foam/bib mousse is used mostly in off road racing, MX and I know for sure in the Dakar Rally among others.
That said, it doesn't mean it only works in off road racing. Quite the contrary it has everything to work to our advantage in RC racing.
The performance loss TC tires have has everything to do with bad/incorrect design, sidewall stiffness is very low and can't be fixed with stiffer foam or increasing tire pressure. By the way, did you know F1 tires have tire pressures of around half of passenger cars? That's because their stiffness comes from construction/design, not air pressure
Developing pneumatic tires for RC would be a waste in resources (and an added complexity) when the problem is laying in front of our eyes.
07-19-2018, 03:43 PM
#30
Anyone who's dealt with chinese stuff long enough, starts to be able to read through bad translations. That website is a goldmine!
IIRC, team trinity does have people "here." If we asked... maybe someone would cough them up?
Totally is. But foam filled rubber is "the same tech" we've been running since the mid 90's.
It's used for off road bikes, where the loss in performance is considered acceptable in comparison to the time it would take to change a tube. It also wears out rather fast, and heats the tires rather badly.
Just so we're clear, closed cell foam, is like the foam you see in lifejackets, yoga mats, and the expensive tire inserts. The only foam i've seen in r/c car tires (I know closed cell is used... I've just never seen it..) is open cell. All the stuff that came with all of my j-concepts tires, my pro-line tires, and.. like I said before. Open cell foam can be adjusted as well.
Cost is the most likely reason. We have ROAR people around here too... maybe we could ask the horses mouth?
A car engine vacuum guage, is a very accurate manometer :-) They're $20. The kit that was posted, used valves like you see on basketballs, which is a good choice... those are cheap enough that they can include that sort of valve on $2 and $3 balls.
Maybe not! But we have answered my questions about it..
We've answered all but the last bit of that.
.... Surprising what you can find out by asking. :-) Now I know it's been done. And it was done for touring cars. And it worked well. :-) And if you were curious, you know now too.
IIRC, team trinity does have people "here." If we asked... maybe someone would cough them up?
Totally is. But foam filled rubber is "the same tech" we've been running since the mid 90's.
It's used for off road bikes, where the loss in performance is considered acceptable in comparison to the time it would take to change a tube. It also wears out rather fast, and heats the tires rather badly.
Just so we're clear, closed cell foam, is like the foam you see in lifejackets, yoga mats, and the expensive tire inserts. The only foam i've seen in r/c car tires (I know closed cell is used... I've just never seen it..) is open cell. All the stuff that came with all of my j-concepts tires, my pro-line tires, and.. like I said before. Open cell foam can be adjusted as well.
Cost is the most likely reason. We have ROAR people around here too... maybe we could ask the horses mouth?
A car engine vacuum guage, is a very accurate manometer :-) They're $20. The kit that was posted, used valves like you see on basketballs, which is a good choice... those are cheap enough that they can include that sort of valve on $2 and $3 balls.
Maybe not! But we have answered my questions about it..
We've answered all but the last bit of that.
.... Surprising what you can find out by asking. :-) Now I know it's been done. And it was done for touring cars. And it worked well. :-) And if you were curious, you know now too.
Your myopic exposure to the hobby is showing here and here. Closed cell foam are WIDELY used in the hobby. They are included in most tires from most manufacturers. The tires you bought are old stock.
Last edited by urnotevenwrg2; 07-19-2018 at 04:53 PM.
