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Old 07-29-2008, 08:55 AM   #1126
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Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
If you're plates are 0.5mm off then they must be incorrectly machined because I have just measured up a few of the plates (ie suspension blocks) that I have and they are all spot on.

This problem sounds a lot like the one that HB Cyclone drivers complain about. I think the closest thing to an answer and the one I am inclined to believe is that the HPI rear hub mouldings are slightly uneven.

I did a rough measurement of my car and there is a small difference left/right, with left having maybe 0.5deg more toe-in than right. I can kind of eyeball a difference in the hubs just by looking at the angle of them relative to the arm. Straight line running has never been an issue for me though. I run the softer "high traction" parts by the way.

I think the mouldings are as much luck of the draw as anything else, some people seem to have a big difference in rear toe, others (like me) very little. Maybe the problem is more pronounced on the carbon parts?

Now one solution doing the rounds in the Cyclone forum (I only occasionally look in there mind you) is to ream out the hub hinge pin hole a little, and put a small grub scew in the edge to take out the angle. Apparently this is the Hara mod. I don't know if that is true or not.

Or you may be able to source some aftermarket hubs that have a more precise dimension. I know that Jet and 3Racing make alloy rear hubs but can't comment on the accuracy of their geometry, might be worth a try.

The Hara mod isn't a fix. He did my hubs at the Reedy race and my toe was still off. The only other options you have are the 3Racing hubs which solve the problem and are fairly cheap.....then you have the Tamiya hubs that require you to modify the rear arms to get them to fit but I really like this mod because it slightly changes your outter camber link location which gives the car a different feel. I would suggest to all Top owners to dump the stock HPI/HB rear hubs and go with the 3Racing hubs or do the Tamiya mod. I posted the complete mod on the HB thread I will go look for it and post it in here for anyone that needs it.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:10 AM   #1127
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"Tamiya 416 rear hubs and the rear outter hinge pins is all you need and a reamer. The hot bodies rear outter hinge pins are 2.5mm and you need to ream the outter part of the arm to 2.6mm to fit the Tamiya hinge pins. Once you do this your toe in worries are over. (Insert clapping and rejoice) Now here's the catch... but it's a good one if you ask me. The Tamiya rear hub is shorter in height than the hotbodies so you will have to use shims in order to get it back to regular height. I added 3mm of shims. The last catch is that the holes on the Tamiya hub are inbetween the what we use for hotbodies. On the Hotbodies we always use the inner hole on the hub. The Tamiya hub has their hole inside the hotbodies inner hole and the Tamiya outter hole is inbetween the Hotbodies inner and outter hole (did I lose anyone in the explaination) So what I ran was the Tamiya ouuter hole (middle of the Hotbodies holes) The car was even better than it was for the Reedy race. I also made some spring changes and moved the rear shocks out a couple of holes. "

tamiya parts
Hinge pin part #53917
Rear hub part#51333
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:16 AM   #1128
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interesting !!
What is the difference between teh 416 hubs and teh 415 hubs ???
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:22 AM   #1129
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Originally Posted by razzor View Post
interesting !!
What is the difference between teh 416 hubs and teh 415 hubs ???
I'm not sure of the difference. E.J. is the one that turned me on to the Tamiya hubs. Maybe he can answer your question.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:23 AM   #1130
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Originally Posted by razzor View Post
interesting !!
What is the difference between teh 416 hubs and teh 415 hubs ???
I'm not sure of the difference. E.J. is the one that turned me on to the Tamiya hubs. Maybe he can answer your question.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:23 AM   #1131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razzor View Post
interesting !!
What is the difference between teh 416 hubs and teh 415 hubs ???
I'm not sure of the difference. E.J. is the one that turned me on to the Tamiya hubs. Maybe he can answer your question.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:24 AM   #1132
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
EJ, Had a hell ofa time getting it to track straight... The rear plates the hold the arms are off .5mm and that makes it 3 degrees toe-in on the left side.

Any one else have this problem?

I've ordered a new chassis from AMPdraw 3.5 mill chassis....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
If you're plates are 0.5mm off then they must be incorrectly machined because I have just measured up a few of the plates (ie suspension blocks) that I have and they are all spot on.

This problem sounds a lot like the one that HB Cyclone drivers complain about. I think the closest thing to an answer and the one I am inclined to believe is that the HPI rear hub mouldings are slightly uneven.

I did a rough measurement of my car and there is a small difference left/right, with left having maybe 0.5deg more toe-in than right. I can kind of eyeball a difference in the hubs just by looking at the angle of them relative to the arm. Straight line running has never been an issue for me though. I run the softer "high traction" parts by the way.

I think the mouldings are as much luck of the draw as anything else, some people seem to have a big difference in rear toe, others (like me) very little. Maybe the problem is more pronounced on the carbon parts?

Now one solution doing the rounds in the Cyclone forum (I only occasionally look in there mind you) is to ream out the hub hinge pin hole a little, and put a small grub scew in the edge to take out the angle. Apparently this is the Hara mod. I don't know if that is true or not.

Or you may be able to source some aftermarket hubs that have a more precise dimension. I know that Jet and 3Racing make alloy rear hubs but can't comment on the accuracy of their geometry, might be worth a try.
I tried 2 different toe-in suspension mount but not screwed in.... I'll try all of them tonight....
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:25 AM   #1133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
EJ, Had a hell ofa time getting it to track straight... The rear plates the hold the arms are off .5mm and that makes it 3 degrees toe-in on the left side.

Any one else have this problem?

I've ordered a new chassis from AMPdraw 3.5 mill chassis....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
If you're plates are 0.5mm off then they must be incorrectly machined because I have just measured up a few of the plates (ie suspension blocks) that I have and they are all spot on.

This problem sounds a lot like the one that HB Cyclone drivers complain about. I think the closest thing to an answer and the one I am inclined to believe is that the HPI rear hub mouldings are slightly uneven.

I did a rough measurement of my car and there is a small difference left/right, with left having maybe 0.5deg more toe-in than right. I can kind of eyeball a difference in the hubs just by looking at the angle of them relative to the arm. Straight line running has never been an issue for me though. I run the softer "high traction" parts by the way.

I think the mouldings are as much luck of the draw as anything else, some people seem to have a big difference in rear toe, others (like me) very little. Maybe the problem is more pronounced on the carbon parts?

Now one solution doing the rounds in the Cyclone forum (I only occasionally look in there mind you) is to ream out the hub hinge pin hole a little, and put a small grub scew in the edge to take out the angle. Apparently this is the Hara mod. I don't know if that is true or not.

Or you may be able to source some aftermarket hubs that have a more precise dimension. I know that Jet and 3Racing make alloy rear hubs but can't comment on the accuracy of their geometry, might be worth a try.
I tried 2 different toe-in suspension mount but not screwed in.... I'll try all of them tonight....
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:25 AM   #1134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
EJ, Had a hell ofa time getting it to track straight... The rear plates the hold the arms are off .5mm and that makes it 3 degrees toe-in on the left side.

Any one else have this problem?

I've ordered a new chassis from AMPdraw 3.5 mill chassis....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
If you're plates are 0.5mm off then they must be incorrectly machined because I have just measured up a few of the plates (ie suspension blocks) that I have and they are all spot on.

This problem sounds a lot like the one that HB Cyclone drivers complain about. I think the closest thing to an answer and the one I am inclined to believe is that the HPI rear hub mouldings are slightly uneven.

I did a rough measurement of my car and there is a small difference left/right, with left having maybe 0.5deg more toe-in than right. I can kind of eyeball a difference in the hubs just by looking at the angle of them relative to the arm. Straight line running has never been an issue for me though. I run the softer "high traction" parts by the way.

I think the mouldings are as much luck of the draw as anything else, some people seem to have a big difference in rear toe, others (like me) very little. Maybe the problem is more pronounced on the carbon parts?

Now one solution doing the rounds in the Cyclone forum (I only occasionally look in there mind you) is to ream out the hub hinge pin hole a little, and put a small grub scew in the edge to take out the angle. Apparently this is the Hara mod. I don't know if that is true or not.

Or you may be able to source some aftermarket hubs that have a more precise dimension. I know that Jet and 3Racing make alloy rear hubs but can't comment on the accuracy of their geometry, might be worth a try.
I tried 2 different toe-in suspension mount but not screwed in.... I'll try all of them tonight....
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:47 AM   #1135
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I've had the same issue. I first noticed it when i was helping another racer set up his Cyclone Worlds Edition and he had 2 degrees of toe in on the left and 3 degrees of toe in on the right. I thne checked my car and found I had the same thing. Someoen her mentioned loosening off all of the screws holding the toe blocks in and adjusting them so the toe is even. I did this and got about 2.5 degrees on each side w/ the 3 degree to block.

I might try the 416 rear knuckles if that will get rid of the problem. Also thinking of going to the 37/17 pullies as my centre pulley has no teeth remaining and it seems like as good a time as any to upgrade.
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:51 AM   #1136
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Originally Posted by Rob Burns View Post
I've had the same issue. I first noticed it when i was helping another racer set up his Cyclone Worlds Edition and he had 2 degrees of toe in on the left and 3 degrees of toe in on the right. I thne checked my car and found I had the same thing. Someoen her mentioned loosening off all of the screws holding the toe blocks in and adjusting them so the toe is even. I did this and got about 2.5 degrees on each side w/ the 3 degree to block.

I might try the 416 rear knuckles if that will get rid of the problem. Also thinking of going to the 37/17 pullies as my centre pulley has no teeth remaining and it seems like as good a time as any to upgrade.
The only issue I see with that is you bang a board/etc and it's tweaked all over again....
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Old 07-29-2008, 09:55 AM   #1137
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
The only issue I see with that is you bang a board/etc and it's tweaked all over again....
Plus Nova hasn't met a board he didn't bang into. Sure that online gambling late at night didn't make your you crossed eyed when looking at your toe in.
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Old 07-29-2008, 10:05 AM   #1138
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Plus Nova hasn't met a board he didn't bang into. Sure that online gambling late at night didn't make your you crossed eyed when looking at your toe in.
Hey Brian, going to stop by this weekend at the Sedan Challenge?

I found this out BEFORE I started playing poker.
Sunday was a bad day..... I made it to the final 20 before I got felted, the guy that had no reason to call me and put me out got his 5 hands later... Texas holdem.. I had KK he 7, 9 not suited, flop K 6 5 All in for me... He called... Turncard duce..... River ~^#$*&**# an 8. I was left with 3K and lost a 120K pot... Winner won a seat in the Vegas WTP Texas Holdem tournament..
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Old 07-29-2008, 11:37 AM   #1139
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Originally Posted by Nova F1 Racer View Post
Hey Brian, going to stop by this weekend at the Sedan Challenge?

I found this out BEFORE I started playing poker.
Sunday was a bad day..... I made it to the final 20 before I got felted, the guy that had no reason to call me and put me out got his 5 hands later... Texas holdem.. I had KK he 7, 9 not suited, flop K 6 5 All in for me... He called... Turncard duce..... River ~^#$*&**# an 8. I was left with 3K and lost a 120K pot... Winner won a seat in the Vegas WTP Texas Holdem tournament..
Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I might try and run down on Sunday if the weather is looking good. Might ride my cycle down. Saturday I will be racing offroad.
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Old 07-29-2008, 01:56 PM   #1140
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Hey Guys,

I was checking through this problem with the toe as well and here's what I found:

Measure between the shock towers front and rear at each outer most edge. It's hard to do unless you have long calipers but most of the time they are parallel to each other or very very close.

Next, place a straight edge against the tower and line it up over the rear hub or castor block. You will find that the wheel base is actually off. This is why when you put the car on set-up blocks, the rear toe is off.

I dremaled the holes in my chassis to move the countersinks to make the toe perfect but I noticed the universal angles were way off. I then reshimmed to get the wheel base correct and put it back on the set-up blocks and then the toe was way off!!!!

Set-up blocks are great if the wheel base is exactly perfect. If the wheel base is off then it's impossible to measure the toe correctly. Be sure to use the tower as a reference to try and "square" the car up. From there, then you can use the set-up blocks accurately.

I hope this helps....
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