1141LikesCan-Am RC Series
11-27-2018, 10:35 AM - Wikipost
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06-15-2018, 04:57 AM
#92
Tech Master
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Land of high taxes and bad football
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06-15-2018, 05:24 AM
#94
So, if I understand correctly, we as a racers are willing to go out and spend $700+ on a kit plus all the extra stuff. Buy 3 of the same body every other week so we can mount it 5mm forward, or back, or whatever, multiple sets of tires for a 3 day race, $100 servos, $150+ esc’s, $100+ battery packs every few weeks (why? who does this? Doesn’t seem necessary. I don’t, but some on this thread have admitted to such), $400 on a charger/discharge set up, $150 on a mass produced machined aluminum set up station, (yes I know 1 time purchase, but it’s way overpriced) $100’s on other tools and pit stuff, pay over a $100 per class, and run mutple classes at big events, pay for the travel and everything else involved, but... buying the “hot” is just too much? So we try and reinvent the wheel?
i have a question. Has anyone actually proven any of these “cheater” motors are actually that? Cheater motors? Are any these motors actually below the minimum IR rating set by ROAR? Yes I understand they may be below what was originally submitted, but if not below the minimum for that wind, if the wire size is the legal size, and the motor meets all the other technical specs set, why is it a “cheater” motor? Because you got beat by it? Because there is no way anyone beat you unless they were cheating?
Dont think for one minute that if this takes hold, there won’t be someone out there that will reprogram an ESC to be in “blinky”, butbhave just enough timing/boost to give that little extra. Not so much that it’s truly noticeable, but it will be there. I’m actually surprised that this isn’t already out there. So what happens then? Hand out ESC’s at every event? Then charged handout batteries every round?
Yes some of that seems extreme, but it’s a rabbit hole, once you start down it, you never know where it ends.
i have a question. Has anyone actually proven any of these “cheater” motors are actually that? Cheater motors? Are any these motors actually below the minimum IR rating set by ROAR? Yes I understand they may be below what was originally submitted, but if not below the minimum for that wind, if the wire size is the legal size, and the motor meets all the other technical specs set, why is it a “cheater” motor? Because you got beat by it? Because there is no way anyone beat you unless they were cheating?
Dont think for one minute that if this takes hold, there won’t be someone out there that will reprogram an ESC to be in “blinky”, butbhave just enough timing/boost to give that little extra. Not so much that it’s truly noticeable, but it will be there. I’m actually surprised that this isn’t already out there. So what happens then? Hand out ESC’s at every event? Then charged handout batteries every round?
Yes some of that seems extreme, but it’s a rabbit hole, once you start down it, you never know where it ends.
Last edited by theproffesor; 06-15-2018 at 05:40 AM.
06-15-2018, 05:25 AM
#95
https://www.facebook.com/USIndoorChamps/?hc_ref=ARTlIQN8cULrbl_ncgozgmywiDrFHck38grNBKOlmr31eDTbTedDW-ncXqCuq_Oacz4&fref=nf
8.3.2.5.4 Maximum temperature for a charged li-poly battery pack shall be ambient
temperature +/- 5 deg..
8.3.2.5.5 The use of heating devices of any type to heat a li-poly battery is strictly prohibited.
8.3.2.5.6 The use of cooling device and or freeze sprays of any type to cool a li-poly battery is
strictly prohibited.
8.3.2.5.7 Overcharging/Overheating is defined as but not limited to the following:
Charging of a li-poly battery with a charge profile other than CC/CV (i.e.
NiCad/NiMh)
Charging at a charge rate higher than 1C
Charged battery voltage exceeding the max charge voltage per 8.3.2.5.2,
Heating of the li-poly battery beyond the max. charged temp and or the use of
cooling devices to cool an overheated battery per 8.3.2.5.4., 8.3.2.5.5. and
8.3.2.5.6.
Overcharging/Overheating will not be tolerated per section 5.13.10
06-15-2018, 05:40 AM
#96
So, if I understand correctly, we as a racers are willing to go out and spend $700+ on a kit plus all the extra stuff. Buy 3 of the same body every other week so we can mount it 5mm forward, or back, or whatever, multiple sets of tires for a 3 day race, $100 servos, $150+ esc’s, $100+ battery packs every few weeks (why? who does this? Doesn’t seem necessary. I don’t, but some on this thread have admitted to such), $400 on a charger/discharge set up, $150 on a mass produced machined aluminum set up station, (yes I know 1 time purchase, but it’s way overpriced) $100’s on other tools and pit stuff, pay over a $100 per class, and run mutple classes at big events, pay for the travel and everything else involved, but... buying the “hot” is just too much? So we try and reinvent the wheel?
i have a question. Has anyone actually proven any of these “cheater” motors are actually that? Cheater motors? Are any these motors actually below the minimum IR rating set by ROAR? Yes I understand they may be below what was originally submitted, but if not below the minimum for that wind, if the wire size is the legal size, and the motor meets all the other technical specs set, why is it a “cheater” motor? Because you got beat by it? Because there is no way anyone beat you unless they were cheating?
Dont think for one minute that if this takes hold, there won’t be someone out there that will reprogram an ESC to be in “blinky”, butbhave just enough timing/boost to give that little extra. Not so much that it’s truly noticeable, but it will be there. I’m surprised that this isn’t already out there.
i have a question. Has anyone actually proven any of these “cheater” motors are actually that? Cheater motors? Are any these motors actually below the minimum IR rating set by ROAR? Yes I understand they may be below what was originally submitted, but if not below the minimum for that wind, if the wire size is the legal size, and the motor meets all the other technical specs set, why is it a “cheater” motor? Because you got beat by it? Because there is no way anyone beat you unless they were cheating?
Dont think for one minute that if this takes hold, there won’t be someone out there that will reprogram an ESC to be in “blinky”, butbhave just enough timing/boost to give that little extra. Not so much that it’s truly noticeable, but it will be there. I’m surprised that this isn’t already out there.
As said anyone that races at there big races (unless your in your own world) has heard about this . one company started this and 2 others have starting doing it as well ... Roar hasnt done anything to stop it ... So whats the next thing someone will do (cheating) to gain the edge? Thats why this (can-am)is happening .
Maybe someone else will comment with more info on this situation
06-15-2018, 06:24 AM
#98
So the question is, outside of a “ROAR” event, why didn’t the promotors of the the other “big” races simply ban these known cheater motors from the event? Those are all private events so there should be no legal issue from them saying, sorry you can’t play.
If the snowbirds, Reedy, IIC, and other events bared a manufacturer from that event, I think the message would be loud and clear. And if local tracks did the same, manufacturers would keep to the rules. It seems as though they have pushed the issue aside for fear of losing money.
I applaud the attempt to hold ROAR and motor manufacturers to account. I am just not on board with handouts at the club level and am disheartened that something hasn’t been done by those that truly have the power to do so.
the other question is, If ROAR can’t or won’t enforce its own rules, what purpose do they serve?
If the snowbirds, Reedy, IIC, and other events bared a manufacturer from that event, I think the message would be loud and clear. And if local tracks did the same, manufacturers would keep to the rules. It seems as though they have pushed the issue aside for fear of losing money.
I applaud the attempt to hold ROAR and motor manufacturers to account. I am just not on board with handouts at the club level and am disheartened that something hasn’t been done by those that truly have the power to do so.
the other question is, If ROAR can’t or won’t enforce its own rules, what purpose do they serve?
06-15-2018, 06:39 AM
#99
So the question is, outside of a “ROAR” event, why didn’t the promotors of the the other “big” races simply ban these known cheater motors from the event? Those are all private events so there should be no legal issue from them saying, sorry you can’t play.
If the snowbirds, Reedy, IIC, and other events bared a manufacturer from that event, I think the message would be loud and clear. And if local tracks did the same, manufacturers would keep to the rules. It seems as though they have pushed the issue aside for fear of losing money.
I applaud the attempt to hold ROAR and motor manufacturers to account. I am just not on board with handouts at the club level and am disheartened that something hasn’t been done by those that truly have the power to do so.
the other question is, If ROAR can’t or won’t enforce its own rules, what purpose do they serve?
If the snowbirds, Reedy, IIC, and other events bared a manufacturer from that event, I think the message would be loud and clear. And if local tracks did the same, manufacturers would keep to the rules. It seems as though they have pushed the issue aside for fear of losing money.
I applaud the attempt to hold ROAR and motor manufacturers to account. I am just not on board with handouts at the club level and am disheartened that something hasn’t been done by those that truly have the power to do so.
the other question is, If ROAR can’t or won’t enforce its own rules, what purpose do they serve?
06-15-2018, 06:40 AM
#100
So, if I understand correctly, we as a racers are willing to go out and spend $700+ on a kit plus all the extra stuff. Buy 3 of the same body every other week so we can mount it 5mm forward, or back, or whatever, multiple sets of tires for a 3 day race, $100 servos, $150+ esc’s, $100+ battery packs every few weeks (why? who does this? Doesn’t seem necessary. I don’t, but some on this thread have admitted to such), $400 on a charger/discharge set up, $150 on a mass produced machined aluminum set up station, (yes I know 1 time purchase, but it’s way overpriced) $100’s on other tools and pit stuff, pay over a $100 per class, and run mutple classes at big events, pay for the travel and everything else involved, but... buying the “hot” is just too much? So we try and reinvent the wheel?
i have a question. Has anyone actually proven any of these “cheater” motors are actually that? Cheater motors? Are any these motors actually below the minimum IR rating set by ROAR? Yes I understand they may be below what was originally submitted, but if not below the minimum for that wind, if the wire size is the legal size, and the motor meets all the other technical specs set, why is it a “cheater” motor? Because you got beat by it? Because there is no way anyone beat you unless they were cheating?
Dont think for one minute that if this takes hold, there won’t be someone out there that will reprogram an ESC to be in “blinky”, butbhave just enough timing/boost to give that little extra. Not so much that it’s truly noticeable, but it will be there. I’m actually surprised that this isn’t already out there. So what happens then? Hand out ESC’s at every event? Then charged handout batteries every round?
Yes some of that seems extreme, but it’s a rabbit hole, once you start down it, you never know where it ends.
i have a question. Has anyone actually proven any of these “cheater” motors are actually that? Cheater motors? Are any these motors actually below the minimum IR rating set by ROAR? Yes I understand they may be below what was originally submitted, but if not below the minimum for that wind, if the wire size is the legal size, and the motor meets all the other technical specs set, why is it a “cheater” motor? Because you got beat by it? Because there is no way anyone beat you unless they were cheating?
Dont think for one minute that if this takes hold, there won’t be someone out there that will reprogram an ESC to be in “blinky”, butbhave just enough timing/boost to give that little extra. Not so much that it’s truly noticeable, but it will be there. I’m actually surprised that this isn’t already out there. So what happens then? Hand out ESC’s at every event? Then charged handout batteries every round?
Yes some of that seems extreme, but it’s a rabbit hole, once you start down it, you never know where it ends.
06-15-2018, 06:49 AM
#101
good question . im sure just like in anything else .lets say USIC (not that they have/will) decides to not allow trinity monster max, fantom fr3, tsr 2.0 , r1 v16. now EVERY racer attending has to buy a motor at a premium price to attend that event . not to say some will not try to install stators from one of the banned motors into there mclain or kill shot or whatever. just opens up a new can of worms and cheater tricks ...
where as if they just offer a handout motor its saves everyone the hastle of rounding up a competative motor. and noone can cheat with the handout motor .
yes some will begin to find a cheat in the esc (as im hearing some already have with one brand ,but not proven as of yet) but that can be checked for almost as easily as anything else (if they are checked )
where as if they just offer a handout motor its saves everyone the hastle of rounding up a competative motor. and noone can cheat with the handout motor .
yes some will begin to find a cheat in the esc (as im hearing some already have with one brand ,but not proven as of yet) but that can be checked for almost as easily as anything else (if they are checked )
06-15-2018, 06:58 AM
#102
The last time ROAR tried to enforce the motor rules, they got sued. Or I should say, everyone who races RC got sued, Every track in the US runs ROAR rules, with only slight changes to meet what the racers want. You cannot separate ROAR from the rest of the RC racing community. To do so, you create a straw man argument. You may feel good about attacking the straw man, but in the end you've accomplished nothing.
It's not up to ROAR to enforce the rules. It's up to the racers to enforce the rules.
06-15-2018, 07:02 AM
#103
Tech Master
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I don't know how the charge rate will be enforced. The only benefit to the high current dump/recharge is heat...not the cycle itself. It seems as thought the +/- over ambient will go a long way towards eliminating the need for a high amp charge (other than decreased charge time).
06-15-2018, 07:54 AM
#104
Did someone say there's never been a "battery war in stock racing"? I think you better look back to the days prior to Lipo batteries. Constantly changing technology, constant increasing of capacities, constantly improved IR's, batteries matched to the thousandths of a volt, battery zappers, and there were A LOT of matchers out there in the game....what exactly would you call that? In fact I needed help from the likes of Richie King (Dillon Racing), Jeff at Pro-Match Racing and EA Motorsports. Their support over the years was a blessing because it certainly felt like a war to me.
Don't fool yourself into thinking we've escaped that mentality. Today - SHV pack, low profile packs, graphene packs, new packs touted as "the lowest IR's seen yet", i-chargers, 40amp discharging, battery warmers....and the list goes on. If we're all running equal motors, then I need that initial punch in the main to get me either out front or up to the front if I'm starting a little further back in the field. Sure, the punch may level off, but getting me out in front of the field will be critical. You shut down the motors, which I do believe has place in this hobby, the other pieces to the puzzle will become the next issues. To some degree the Can-Am series and its' possible success, especially at big events will impact the revenues of some motor producing companies and this will primarily extend to lost sales after the event as well. Because now they won't be able to tout Brand X won at a certain event or dominated the make-up of the A-Main field. It will also minimize available overall sponsorship dollars for larger events, and I would tend to believe that money is already getting harder to come by. With that said, some of those companies will begin to look for other avenues to replace their lost motor revenue. They will find it....they always do.
Don't fool yourself into thinking we've escaped that mentality. Today - SHV pack, low profile packs, graphene packs, new packs touted as "the lowest IR's seen yet", i-chargers, 40amp discharging, battery warmers....and the list goes on. If we're all running equal motors, then I need that initial punch in the main to get me either out front or up to the front if I'm starting a little further back in the field. Sure, the punch may level off, but getting me out in front of the field will be critical. You shut down the motors, which I do believe has place in this hobby, the other pieces to the puzzle will become the next issues. To some degree the Can-Am series and its' possible success, especially at big events will impact the revenues of some motor producing companies and this will primarily extend to lost sales after the event as well. Because now they won't be able to tout Brand X won at a certain event or dominated the make-up of the A-Main field. It will also minimize available overall sponsorship dollars for larger events, and I would tend to believe that money is already getting harder to come by. With that said, some of those companies will begin to look for other avenues to replace their lost motor revenue. They will find it....they always do.
Last edited by ASM; 06-15-2018 at 08:32 AM.
06-15-2018, 08:06 AM
#105
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Land of high taxes and bad football
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6000lcg and a 5.5 here I come....