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Can-Am RC Series

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Cheaters Suck.
MOTOR OF MONTH NO MORE!!!
3.5mm MALE bullet connectors are REQUIRED
at all CanAm races

CanAm Motor & Transmission Specs
USGT
ORCA------------4.40min FDR Indoors-------------169g

STOCK TC
TEAM POWERS------5.40 min FDR Indoors-----------------173g

SUPER STOCK TC
SCORPION-----6.20 min FDR Indoor--------------------170g

CanAm Stock 1/12th
TEAM SCREAM-------------OPEN-----------------------160g

CanAm Super Stock 1/12th
TEAM SCREAM-----------35T/88T-----------------------160g

CanAm F1
SCORPION-----------------28T/92T-----------------------170g

CanAm WGTR
ORCA---------------------36T/92T-----------------------169g


TC/USGT Likely Spur/Pinion Combinations
USGT
1.7 Internal
96/37 => 4.411 FDR
101/39 => 4.403 FDR

1.80 Internal
93/38 => 4.405 FDR
98/40 => 4.410 FDR

1.85 Internal
100/42 => 4.405 FDR

1.9 Internal
95/41 => 4.402 FDR
102/44 => 4.405 FDR

2.0 Internal
99/45 => 4.400 FDR

STOCK TC INDOOR
1.7 Internal
102/32 => 5.419 FDR
105/33 => 5.409 FDR
108/34 => 5.400 FDR

1.80 Internal
99/33 => 5.400FDR
102/34 => 5
.400 FDR
105/35 => 5
.400 FDR
108/36 => 5
.400 FDR
111/37 => 5
.400 FDR

1.85 Internal
108/37 => 5.400 FDR
111/38 => 5.404 FDR
114/39 => 5.408 FDR

1.9 Internal
108/38 => 5.400 FDR
111/39 => 5.408 FDR

2.0 Internal
92/34 => 5.412 FDR
100/37 => 5.405 FDR
108/40 => 5.400 FDR

SUPER STOCK TC INDOOR
1.7 Internal

106/29 => 6.214 FDR
110/30 => 6.233 FDR

1.80 Internal
100/29 => 6.207 FDR
107/31 => 6.213 FDR
114/33 => 6.218 FDR

1.85 Internal
104/31 => 6.206 FDR
114/34 => 6.203 FDR

1.9 Internal
98/30 => 6.207 FDR
108/33 => 6.218 FDR
111/34 => 6.203 FDR

2.0 Internal
112/36 => 6.222 FDR

NB: Serpent Project 4X was checked and due to the O.D. of the center pulley the internal is not exactly 2.000. Testing revealed it is closer to 2.005. For Serpent Cars ONLY, the drivers who wish to be as close as possible to the Minimum FDR can use the following spur/pinion combinations: SS TC => 99/32; Stock TC => 97/36; USGT => 101/46.

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Old 04-23-2019, 07:34 AM
  #706  
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Here is a video showing the how close the speeds are down the straightaway. Most are towards the second half of the race
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MG7...ature=youtu.be
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:58 AM
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Spec racing should include all roar legal motors.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:14 AM
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How's that been working out?

Roar who? Is Roar going to tech inspect now?

Can I race my illegal 17.5's against you? Or how about the perfectly legal insanely strong rotors, that you can't get off of the shelf? If you want to run 17.5's at your track, so be it. Don't be upset if I run a motor way hotter than yours. Don't get upset because I put time into getting a perfectly legal motor prepped, and it's faster than yours. I don't want to hear it.
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Old 04-24-2019, 06:25 AM
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You'd think with the 15 onroad classes we already have there would be something for everybody. If you don't like CanAm that's totally fine, there are plenty of other classes out there to run...
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:17 AM
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CanAm is a replacement for ''not so Stock'' classes. Not a new class.

Worst case scenario, you have a dozen 17.5's and a single CanAm motor in your parts box. Not a big deal.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
How's that been working out?

Roar who? Is Roar going to tech inspect now?

Can I race my illegal 17.5's against you? Or how about the perfectly legal insanely strong rotors, that you can't get off of the shelf? If you want to run 17.5's at your track, so be it. Don't be upset if I run a motor way hotter than yours. Don't get upset because I put time into getting a perfectly legal motor prepped, and it's faster than yours. I don't want to hear it.

Who is Roar? Really?

I will say Who is Can-Am.

You can race your legal motor against me, or even your perfectly legal insanely strong rotor motor against me because you can bet that I will have one also just like everyone else. I won’t be upset that you don’t know how to gear your motor correctly nor will I be upset that you may have had your motor prepped, I encourage getting advice it’s racing. It’s kind of like getting chassis advice and who doesn’t do that? It’s racing.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:28 AM
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Roar hasn't been relevant in decades. The more fun classes, Wgtr, F1, and Usvta came about, completely outside of Roar. Give or take piggy backing on Roars obsolete motor rules.

There's still a ton of green cheater motors out there. I don't really care one way or the other. But that debacle sure did lower turnouts at the 4 tracks I go to. More than a few racers left after getting out motored on a regular basis.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect View Post
Roar hasn't been relevant in decades. The more fun classes, Wgtr, F1, and Usvta came about, completely outside of Roar. Give or take piggy backing on Roars obsolete motor rules.

There's still a ton of green cheater motors out there. I don't really care one way or the other. But that debacle sure did lower turnouts at the 4 tracks I go to. More than a few racers left after getting out motored on a regular basis.
and orange ones also dont forget those
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:43 AM
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Great, now my secrets out. Guess I'll have to swap my stator into a blue can.
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Old 04-24-2019, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by knapster View Post
​​​​​​That may have been the intent, but because of inconsistencies from motor to motor it doesn't seem to be the case in my opinion.
Maybe the way to look at it is this:

Are the inconsistencies motor to motor "less" than what you see speedwise versus the previous format for spec motors as far as power is concerned? It may be that the can-am setup is not a panacea for all the problems in spec racing, but if it narrows the gap significantly, it can be something that can be built on by other changes.
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Old 04-24-2019, 12:06 PM
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I thought this thread was to give constructive criticism on making Can-am stronger and ways to increase interest on a way to wrangle spec racing back into reality for drivers of all skill sets. This bitch fest back and forth is entertaining but doesn't solve anything to say the least.I much rather have the small variances between motors that are greatly under geared and doesn't require fans to run a full 5 minute race. I also appreciate the fact while some guys may have a motor that slightly out performs mine(not all motors are the same) I know I didn't have to spend $150 for our run times to be marginally different. How is a $150 motor price conducive to getting more people into the hobby and not further killing on-road. I know for me the motor prices were ridiculous when I came back to on-road in 2017. Its funny I've been to quite a few races where the can-am motors have been swapped every night and believe it or not the top guys were still on top. I haven't seen any top guys that routinely run spec racing cry foul with can am or maybe I wasn't there to hear about it but it wasn't big enough deal where it was the talk of the race. I hear more mid pack guys complain which to me just sounds like driver and set up lack more than anything.
I'm only interested in running can-am because I feel like this is a system setup by the racer for the racer. It makes it fun again where I worry much more about my setup than who did I get my motor from and did I spend enough to ensure I'm competitive. I have no motor sponsor nor would I want one with the motor of the week deal when its comes to super stock, I have seen and experienced first hand that depending on who your motor comes from and how much you're willing to pay your motor will have a clear advantage. This is not a knock or diss to anyone as I'm guilty of paying to play as well.
So on to what this thread is about constructive criticism. I think can-am racing is great and creates the close, nail biting, overdriving, overthinking race drama we look forward to in spec racing. However I do have a few issues I would like to bring up. The motors I have ran all have been great and felt as though it was me lacking and not the motors. With that said without creating substantial cost increase I would like to see better bearings or stronger bearings in the motors. I have felt a few different motors at races where I felt a little more drag and play when spinning the rotor, than from the motor I had the night before. I just feel like the tolerance could be a bit closer on some. Not a make or break just an observation with experience running can-am.
I hope to see Can-am success continue and get bigger moving into their second year. I want to thank the racers/manufactures who cares about the racers and implement systems to make it cost effective and fun for all.

This message isn't directed at anyone on this thread this is a general response. I don't ague over the internet, however, I'm willing to have a debate or constructive argument that produces positivity in the hobby with anyone. Have a great day everyone!

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Old 04-24-2019, 12:53 PM
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I want to weigh in with a few things, I personally know and have talked with several of the people who are currently active in this thread so hopefully my opinion is at least considered. Additionally, I raced nearly every big race this last year, both can-am, non can-am, and handout motors (with the exception of NYGP). That being said, my experience is limited to the TSR motors in stock and super stock as I only run pan car.

Overall, I think TSR and specifically Wayne Gerber deserve a shout out for how well they have prepared the motors for can-am 12th scale classes. As near as I can figure, I ran 3 different stock motors at HC, 2 different ones at USIC, 5 different ones at Snowbirds, and 3 different ones at MHIC. That brings my total motors ran personally to 13, not including a similar number I tested for other people or tried in other cars. Over all those motors I didn't get any that I thought were a "dud." On my Motolyser 2.0 every motor I can remember was within 50rpm, and most within 20. This includes the motors I bought at USIC and rented at MHIC, some 5 months apart. Again, the numbers read largely the same. I haven't done the statistical analysis but if there were as many "duds" out there as some people would like to claim I believe it's almost certain I would have encountered them, and likely multiple times.

Am I denying the possibility of a "dud" motor? Absolutely not. I think part of the issue here comes down to logistics. Largely, races don't have the manpower or logistical support to handle can-am in 7-8 classes like some did this year. I believe this is one thing that hinders can-am and will continue to do so. If racers were allowed to exchange motors or buy multiple motors then some of these issues could be resolved, but again that's more and more manpower which in turn is more cost to the races. When racers are given one motor and told "this is what you get, period" their confidence erodes, which in turn leads to complaints of unfairness and discrepancy between motors. No one wants to spend $1,000+ to go to a race and then be forced to run a motor they don't have confidence in. Again, we are back to a logistical issue with can-am. The limited manpower almost necessitates that someone is going to be leaving with hurt feelings. What if racers could go back up and exchange motors for $10, or have the option to buy 2 motors at a race instead of just the 1 and done? Would that solve some of the complaints in this thread? I certainly think it would. I don't know how many people remember the old days when handout brushed motors were a thing everywhere but back then you could buy 2-3 motors and pick the one you wanted to run. Largely I don't recall this same type of feedback back then, but I could be wrong.

For those that know me, you know I was an early critic of can-am, and on some level I still am. However, what handouts have done for some of our stock classes is GREAT, again I repeat GREAT. Does it need to be can-am? Absolutely not, but they were the first and as such are getting the brunt of the wrath.

I do think there are some things that can-am could do things better:
  • First, as stated before, motors need to be more readily available to racers (be it exchanges, sales, ect). Maybe this increases costs to a point where it's no longer feasible, that's definitely a possibility.
  • Second, cam-am is currently trying to do too much. Logistically supporting 7-8 classes is a mess. Sure, not 5 lines above I talked about what great things can-am has done for stock classes, and I stand by that. But what has can-am done for classes like USGT and GTR. Are we seeing bigger turnouts for these classes due to can-am? I think the answer to that is absolutely not. The smoothest can-am races of the year was by FAR the Snowbird Nationals. How many can-am classes were offered at that race? 2, stock 12th scale and stock sedan. The two classes that it "matters" most in, in theory.
  • Third, can-am should completely abandon super stock classes. I know that motor some motor manufacturers have said they won't be providing a motor that fits can-am's super stock requirements for next year and in my opinion this is nothing but good. I believe it's important to keep the companies in mind that sponsor racers, promote racing, and support drivers. How many races did Scorpion sponsor this year? How many representatives did they have at events? None. So why do we want to completely throw aside companies like Motiv, R1, Trinity, TSR, Fantom, ect.... That continue to provide support for racing in one way or another. Additionally, it's my personal opinion that NO ONE should be setting the speed for a real "racers" class. I'll take Snowbirds for example, the A main in both Super Stock classes at that race was comprised of largely of 100% and factory drivers. Quite frankly, can-am has no business controlling that group of racers because they simply don't need it. Efforts should be better focused on where it is needed, in the stock classes. This will make EVERYTHING else better.
  • Lastly, this is again somewhat my personal opinion, but it's shared by many, the current can-am classes are too slow. I don't mean to say that different motors should be used but the gearing can be adjusted without question. For example, at Canadian Nats and at MHIC the can-am 12th scale was geared up from the standard ratio of 72/56 to a new 72/58 ratio. I believe this was in fact a lot better and would not only be good for the class but it would also be better for people looking to join in on can-am options. I've heard multiple people say that it's just too slow and that's why they don't want to run it. Again, I want to point out that in the current landscape of RC the "stock" classes we offer are not actually the entry level classes we might want them to be. How many times have you heard of someone going straight into stock tc vs a USVTA or a USGT? It's basically non-existent. To the people behind can-am, I would ask you to STOP trying to make can-am what you think it should be and instead make it what racing needs because they are not the same thing. It's easy for us to sit back and say "well ya, they will for sure change the gearing next year" but I have it on good authority that we would be wrong. In fact, Mike Hanulec (FJ/Hefty Jesus) has said that he felt the 58 tooth pinions in can-am stock 12th scale made the motor disparity show up even more, and that next year the gear WILL be 72/56. Despite feedback from the manufacturer that they didn't believe that opinion to be correct. Can-am is everyone, not someone. Right?

Now is the time to start talking about what we want. Endless complaining isn't helping anyone and that's about all we are doing in this thread. Lets all try to provide some constructive feedback that can (hopefully) be used to make can-am, but more importantly, racing better in 2019-2020. Ultimately, toy car racing existed before can-am and it will exist after can-am.
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Old 04-24-2019, 01:08 PM
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The races I've been to did allow you to bring your own CanAm motors. As many as you want. But you would have to go through tech inspection for each and have them resealed. Rental racers did not. And rental racers turned in the motors at the end of every day and got a different one the next day. I don't recall if the owned CanAm motors were collected. If they were, you could always keep one not inspected, if you want to practice more after the day was over.

IIRC, everyone club racing had their own motor.

I think they should go to faster wind motors across the board, and reduce timing and gear some more. 58 pinion is too much. Then if certain tracks want to go faster, all you need is a bigger pinion rule at that track.

Except for wgtr, that's supposed to be a slow class. It might also be worthwhile to figure out what gearing on a 25.5 F1 equals a CanAm F1. So those guys can race together in struggling F1 areas.

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Old 04-24-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kave View Post
I want to weigh in with a few things, I personally know and have talked with several of the people who are currently active in this thread so hopefully my opinion is at least considered. Additionally, I raced nearly every big race this last year, both can-am, non can-am, and handout motors (with the exception of NYGP). That being said, my experience is limited to the TSR motors in stock and super stock as I only run pan car.

Overall, I think TSR and specifically Wayne Gerber deserve a shout out for how well they have prepared the motors for can-am 12th scale classes. As near as I can figure, I ran 3 different stock motors at HC, 2 different ones at USIC, 5 different ones at Snowbirds, and 3 different ones at MHIC. That brings my total motors ran personally to 13, not including a similar number I tested for other people or tried in other cars. Over all those motors I didn't get any that I thought were a "dud." On my Motolyser 2.0 every motor I can remember was within 50rpm, and most within 20. This includes the motors I bought at USIC and rented at MHIC, some 5 months apart. Again, the numbers read largely the same. I haven't done the statistical analysis but if there were as many "duds" out there as some people would like to claim I believe it's almost certain I would have encountered them, and likely multiple times.

Am I denying the possibility of a "dud" motor? Absolutely not. I think part of the issue here comes down to logistics. Largely, races don't have the manpower or logistical support to handle can-am in 7-8 classes like some did this year. I believe this is one thing that hinders can-am and will continue to do so. If racers were allowed to exchange motors or buy multiple motors then some of these issues could be resolved, but again that's more and more manpower which in turn is more cost to the races. When racers are given one motor and told "this is what you get, period" their confidence erodes, which in turn leads to complaints of unfairness and discrepancy between motors. No one wants to spend $1,000+ to go to a race and then be forced to run a motor they don't have confidence in. Again, we are back to a logistical issue with can-am. The limited manpower almost necessitates that someone is going to be leaving with hurt feelings. What if racers could go back up and exchange motors for $10, or have the option to buy 2 motors at a race instead of just the 1 and done? Would that solve some of the complaints in this thread? I certainly think it would. I don't know how many people remember the old days when handout brushed motors were a thing everywhere but back then you could buy 2-3 motors and pick the one you wanted to run. Largely I don't recall this same type of feedback back then, but I could be wrong.

For those that know me, you know I was an early critic of can-am, and on some level I still am. However, what handouts have done for some of our stock classes is GREAT, again I repeat GREAT. Does it need to be can-am? Absolutely not, but they were the first and as such are getting the brunt of the wrath.

I do think there are some things that can-am could do things better:
  • First, as stated before, motors need to be more readily available to racers (be it exchanges, sales, ect). Maybe this increases costs to a point where it's no longer feasible, that's definitely a possibility.
  • Second, cam-am is currently trying to do too much. Logistically supporting 7-8 classes is a mess. Sure, not 5 lines above I talked about what great things can-am has done for stock classes, and I stand by that. But what has can-am done for classes like USGT and GTR. Are we seeing bigger turnouts for these classes due to can-am? I think the answer to that is absolutely not. The smoothest can-am races of the year was by FAR the Snowbird Nationals. How many can-am classes were offered at that race? 2, stock 12th scale and stock sedan. The two classes that it "matters" most in, in theory.
  • Third, can-am should completely abandon super stock classes. I know that motor some motor manufacturers have said they won't be providing a motor that fits can-am's super stock requirements for next year and in my opinion this is nothing but good. I believe it's important to keep the companies in mind that sponsor racers, promote racing, and support drivers. How many races did Scorpion sponsor this year? How many representatives did they have at events? None. So why do we want to completely throw aside companies like Motiv, R1, Trinity, TSR, Fantom, ect.... That continue to provide support for racing in one way or another. Additionally, it's my personal opinion that NO ONE should be setting the speed for a real "racers" class. I'll take Snowbirds for example, the A main in both Super Stock classes at that race was comprised of largely of 100% and factory drivers. Quite frankly, can-am has no business controlling that group of racers because they simply don't need it. Efforts should be better focused on where it is needed, in the stock classes. This will make EVERYTHING else better.
  • Lastly, this is again somewhat my personal opinion, but it's shared by many, the current can-am classes are too slow. I don't mean to say that different motors should be used but the gearing can be adjusted without question. For example, at Canadian Nats and at MHIC the can-am 12th scale was geared up from the standard ratio of 72/56 to a new 72/58 ratio. I believe this was in fact a lot better and would not only be good for the class but it would also be better for people looking to join in on can-am options. I've heard multiple people say that it's just too slow and that's why they don't want to run it. Again, I want to point out that in the current landscape of RC the "stock" classes we offer are not actually the entry level classes we might want them to be. How many times have you heard of someone going straight into stock tc vs a USVTA or a USGT? It's basically non-existent. To the people behind can-am, I would ask you to STOP trying to make can-am what you think it should be and instead make it what racing needs because they are not the same thing. It's easy for us to sit back and say "well ya, they will for sure change the gearing next year" but I have it on good authority that we would be wrong. In fact, Mike Hanulec (FJ/Hefty Jesus) has said that he felt the 58 tooth pinions in can-am stock 12th scale made the motor disparity show up even more, and that next year the gear WILL be 72/56. Despite feedback from the manufacturer that they didn't believe that opinion to be correct. Can-am is everyone, not someone. Right?
Now is the time to start talking about what we want. Endless complaining isn't helping anyone and that's about all we are doing in this thread. Lets all try to provide some constructive feedback that can (hopefully) be used to make can-am, but more importantly, racing better in 2019-2020. Ultimately, toy car racing existed before can-am and it will exist after can-am.
Very good post.
Also I think motors should be open to all manufactures.
Gearing needs to be open.
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Old 04-24-2019, 03:06 PM
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This won't be very popular but.. the motors are not the problem at big races. ALL 17.5 12th scale classes suck right now because it's basically wide open around the entire track. The only answer to this nonsense is either a way harder tire or carpet with way less grip. It's no longer a driver's class at all, show up with a 15th place car and yourey going to race for 15th. This is the real reason entries are down, it's not the motor. This is also the reason offroad is huge, drivers are the biggest part of the package, not a 5 dollar bottle of glue. Just saying
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