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Can-Am RC Series

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Cheaters Suck.
MOTOR OF MONTH NO MORE!!!
3.5mm MALE bullet connectors are REQUIRED
at all CanAm races

CanAm Motor & Transmission Specs
USGT
ORCA------------4.40min FDR Indoors-------------169g

STOCK TC
TEAM POWERS------5.40 min FDR Indoors-----------------173g

SUPER STOCK TC
SCORPION-----6.20 min FDR Indoor--------------------170g

CanAm Stock 1/12th
TEAM SCREAM-------------OPEN-----------------------160g

CanAm Super Stock 1/12th
TEAM SCREAM-----------35T/88T-----------------------160g

CanAm F1
SCORPION-----------------28T/92T-----------------------170g

CanAm WGTR
ORCA---------------------36T/92T-----------------------169g


TC/USGT Likely Spur/Pinion Combinations
USGT
1.7 Internal
96/37 => 4.411 FDR
101/39 => 4.403 FDR

1.80 Internal
93/38 => 4.405 FDR
98/40 => 4.410 FDR

1.85 Internal
100/42 => 4.405 FDR

1.9 Internal
95/41 => 4.402 FDR
102/44 => 4.405 FDR

2.0 Internal
99/45 => 4.400 FDR

STOCK TC INDOOR
1.7 Internal
102/32 => 5.419 FDR
105/33 => 5.409 FDR
108/34 => 5.400 FDR

1.80 Internal
99/33 => 5.400FDR
102/34 => 5
.400 FDR
105/35 => 5
.400 FDR
108/36 => 5
.400 FDR
111/37 => 5
.400 FDR

1.85 Internal
108/37 => 5.400 FDR
111/38 => 5.404 FDR
114/39 => 5.408 FDR

1.9 Internal
108/38 => 5.400 FDR
111/39 => 5.408 FDR

2.0 Internal
92/34 => 5.412 FDR
100/37 => 5.405 FDR
108/40 => 5.400 FDR

SUPER STOCK TC INDOOR
1.7 Internal

106/29 => 6.214 FDR
110/30 => 6.233 FDR

1.80 Internal
100/29 => 6.207 FDR
107/31 => 6.213 FDR
114/33 => 6.218 FDR

1.85 Internal
104/31 => 6.206 FDR
114/34 => 6.203 FDR

1.9 Internal
98/30 => 6.207 FDR
108/33 => 6.218 FDR
111/34 => 6.203 FDR

2.0 Internal
112/36 => 6.222 FDR

edit : serpent 4x was checked and due to the O.D. of the center pulley the internal is not exactly 2.000. Testing is currently being done to determine which combinations work.

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Old 06-09-2018, 01:54 PM
  #46  
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FYI;
At Valkaria RC we have our VTS series and one of the classes is a Team Powers TC 21.5 hand out motor. They were specially prepared by Eric Vasutin and sealed. The motors are strong and are only a few tenths slower than the TC 17.5ís. It is by far our best class and has drawn racers of all skill levels. The best part about the class is everyone is equal motor wise, we have a fixed FDR, and even the slower guys are running close to the top.
If done correctly the hand out motors are the way to go hands down!! No more motor of the month or question about anyone cheating.
The last I heard is that FSEARA is considering having a hand out motor class for the 2018/2019 season.
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Old 06-09-2018, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Bri View Post
So was it no qualifying and just one main?

Best regards,
Brian
If I remember it was triple mains at 15 min run time and we were like 7 laps down as the motor just wouldn't run. Tried to trade it but Myron said NO
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:18 AM
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jtsbell View Post
If I remember it was triple mains at 15 min run time and we were like 7 laps down as the motor just wouldn't run. Tried to trade it but Myron said NO
Yea dont judge the idea off a 1st attempt by a vta guy to have it done correctly the first time . he was checking them with a gforce checker and proabbaly didn't double check them with consistant battery voltage .
The more recent (last 6-8months) the handout game has changed to a much better setup so again dont judge this can-am by one individuals attempt to equal the field .
Actually the first yr he had those old 25.5ss motors coryP and myself ran them and I know for sure they were not matched as closely as we were told . racing was good but not as tight as expected cause we were still trying to push the limits of the motors (which is where unicorns & dogs appear)
The key is only asking for 50-70% of what the motor can give and then regulating the fdr and those races are very very fun
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Old 06-11-2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jlfx car audio View Post
Yea dont judge the idea off a 1st attempt by a vta guy to have it done correctly the first time . he was checking them with a gforce checker and proabbaly didn't double check them with consistant battery voltage .
The more recent (last 6-8months) the handout game has changed to a much better setup so again dont judge this can-am by one individuals attempt to equal the field .
Actually the first yr he had those old 25.5ss motors coryP and myself ran them and I know for sure they were not matched as closely as we were told . racing was good but not as tight as expected cause we were still trying to push the limits of the motors (which is where unicorns & dogs appear)
The key is only asking for 50-70% of what the motor can give and then regulating the fdr and those races are very very fun
that is how we did it at 360v2. Take a 10.5 motor locked timing and gear it to max speed of a 17.5 and Locke the fdr so everyone is on the same fdr= equals no fade and close racing and less wear and tear on equipment. I can see this with vta with a locked timing 17.5 and gear it to what a 25.5 tops out at and watch how long you can run with no fade
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Old 06-11-2018, 06:10 PM
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I currently don't have a dog in this fight but I am a track owner that potentially could have. I have followed this thread since post 1 and I see some pro's as well as con's for the concept. First, who or what is "Can/Am"? Is it or will it become a sanctioning body like ROAR or USGT/VTA. What do they have to offer all of the tracks, shops, etc that subscribe, enlist or enroll in their program? What will it cost those that do take the bait and jump on the wagon to become members in this "body polotic"? Are they going to purchase the motor's at a discount from the manufacturers, certify them correct for the application and then pass them along to the masses at an undetermined mark up? Will they then stand behind the product that they have certified and resold to the subscribers?

I am in agreement that something could be done to rein in some runaway costs but in the end won't the faster guys still be faster? Is this just another attempt to make the "not fast" feel better about the fact? The glaring fact is racing isn't fair. At any level. Period. Face it. Seek your level of incompetence and have fun. After all, isn't that the reason we do it?
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
I currently don't have a dog in this fight but I am a track owner that potentially could have. I have followed this thread since post 1 and I see some pro's as well as con's for the concept. First, who or what is "Can/Am"? Is it or will it become a sanctioning body like ROAR or USGT/VTA. What do they have to offer all of the tracks, shops, etc that subscribe, enlist or enroll in their program? What will it cost those that do take the bait and jump on the wagon to become members in this "body polotic"? Are they going to purchase the motor's at a discount from the manufacturers, certify them correct for the application and then pass them along to the masses at an undetermined mark up? Will they then stand behind the product that they have certified and resold to the subscribers?

I am in agreement that something could be done to rein in some runaway costs but in the end won't the faster guys still be faster? Is this just another attempt to make the "not fast" feel better about the fact? The glaring fact is racing isn't fair. At any level. Period. Face it. Seek your level of incompetence and have fun. After all, isn't that the reason we do it?
#1 - what

A collection of racers / track owners / manufacturers who are disappointed with the current state of stock racing. Chasing the motor / rotor of the month isn't helping the hobby or changing the race out comes. These individuals both support racing today via participation, hosting events and sponsoring the races.

#2 - who makes the money

Not Can-Am.. unless we sell tshirts. All money transactions will be between Motor Manufacturer + tracks or Motor Manufacturer + distributors.

#3 why

We love this hobby

#4 poor quality products

Will be disallowed at upcoming events and the problematic manufacturer will be barred for 2 years from future Can-Am involvement. The class will be swapped out with an upstanding manufacturer willing to supply the given class.
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Old 06-11-2018, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
#1 - what

A collection of racers / track owners / manufacturers who are disappointed with the current state of stock racing. Chasing the motor / rotor of the month isn't helping the hobby or changing the race out comes. These individuals both support racing today via participation, hosting events and sponsoring the races.

#2 - who makes the money

Not Can-Am.. unless we sell tshirts. All money transactions will be between Motor Manufacturer + tracks or Motor Manufacturer + distributors.

#3 why

We love this hobby

#4 poor quality products

Will be disallowed at upcoming events and the problematic manufacturer will be barred for 2 years from future Can-Am involvement. The class will be swapped out with an upstanding manufacturer willing to supply the given class.
THANK YOU
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Old 06-12-2018, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DARKSIDE View Post
THANK YOU
Keeping in mind that I still haven't, as a track operator, decided on which side of the fence I'm on, I appreciate the somewhat clouded and ill defined response to my previous questions.

By your own definition Can/Am is a vaguely defined coalition of "track operators and manufacturer's" that happen to be racers that are dis satisfied as well as disappointed with the state of a form of racing(stock) that in fact doesn't truly exist and they support it by participating in events that they both sponsor and host.

Although they state to have no remuneration outside of T-shirt sales they further state that all the money goes to the "tracks and manufacturer's". Hmmm.

They set themselves up with the power to designate a manufacturer as "problematic" and further ban said manufacturer from participation in the program for what could be something as simple as a refusal to grease the"body" on the back end for endorsing and allowing their product to participate.

And all because they love the hobby?

I still don't think that it is a bad plan but maybe a bit too hastily put together. I would like to see an organizational chart along with their articles of incorporation. I am curious(in this extremely litigious society) about how they plan to handle the odd restraint of trade suit that may pop up or how they plan to protect this forum and its members from being named in said suit because they afforded the platform and we the members responded.

Wouldn't it be much easier to define stock? You know, any ready to run kit that if it isn't in the box it doesn't go on the car. If you must further muddy the waters designate a sensorless over powered motor and ESC and go for it. Once done you can simply make everything else modified so there will be no concerns with tires, motors, rotor's, batteries or the person holding the transmitter that thinks he is entitled to an award just because he showed up.
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
Keeping in mind that I still haven't, as a track operator, decided on which side of the fence I'm on.
It seems to me, as a "casual observer", that you have picked a side of the fence. If you have followed this thread from the start, as you say, you should have a better understanding of the concept. Perhaps you would get a better handle on this if you put it to your racers and let them decide how to go forward.
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:25 AM
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I am 100% in favor of the concept. Lets be clear on that. What I don't think is the correct approach would be the apparent handling of a liberal concept by using exclusionary methods. Somewhere in the middle lies the answer. Rushing headlong toward an end just to justify the mean won't end well. Doesn't it make sense to define the issue before solving it or will there be an issue properly designated that fits the agreed on solution. Or, shouldn't the cart be behind the horse? As I intimated to earlier, shouldn't there first be an agreed upon "stock" class before there are methods to police it?

I listen to everything that my racers have to say and then I make a decision that best fits the "Spock" approach. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
I am 100% in favor of the concept. Lets be clear on that. What I don't think is the correct approach would be the apparent handling of a liberal concept by using exclusionary methods. Somewhere in the middle lies the answer. Rushing headlong toward an end just to justify the mean won't end well. Doesn't it make sense to define the issue before solving it or will there be an issue properly designated that fits the agreed on solution. Or, shouldn't the cart be behind the horse? As I intimated to earlier, shouldn't there first be an agreed upon "stock" class before there are methods to police it?

I listen to everything that my racers have to say and then I make a decision that best fits the "Spock" approach. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
I think the issue is well defined - if you've participated in any of the major onroad events the last few years, and ran anything but a mod motor, you'd realize that motors and motor parts are a constant uphill battle. It's reached a point where people are tired of buying (hopefully) the right motor to be competitive at an event, just to have it become obsolete before the next big race. That's the reason for this series, and it's based on recent success at large events and club racing that have shown that the model works. I don't see this as a knee-jerk reaction or cart before the horse issue as it's been a growing issue for several years.
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:12 PM
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Post 52 reply number 1, what. Disappointment in the current state of stock racing. End of sentence. Chasing expenses, as stated motor/rotor, etc not changing outcomes. End of sentence.

Without a clearly defined set of parameters as to what is actually "stock" how can the issue be clearly defined. It all sounds like Trump speak. Who among you can provide the accepted parameters for what is stock. From a class standpoint. Here in North America as well as the rest of the world. It seems simple enough regardless of where you are in the world. Designate a chassis, open the box and build it. Designate a motor/ESC combo, open the box and install it and so on down the line for every system you want to regulate. Drop the flag and race. If somebody laps the field with comparable lap times you congratulate him. If someone pulls the field by yards down the straight but finishes 5 laps down you look into what he is doing.

What is the sought after goal based on the reply listed above? Is it to have a clearly defined class where rookies and wanna be's have a place to play? Then count me in. Do we want to have clearly defined cost cutting measures that will keep us from dipping into our IRA's? Count me in again. Are we trying to do these things in an effort to exclude participants because of skill level or to exclude a manufacturer because he won't stoop down and smooch a brown eye then count me out.

If the goal is to have fun then there should be no penalty for skill or ones ability to pay for the very best available as long as the best available fits specifically into the well planned and thought out structure that you want to build or build on.
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:52 PM
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You say the problem is self evident if youíve been to a major event recently and itís been building for years.

Well that why ROAR finally made new motor rules and Honestly since the implementation of the new motor rules, I havenít seen this ďmotor warĒ that seems to still be raging. As long as you get a motor from one of the top tier companies, there are several, youíre good.

Get a cheap flysky or turnigy, thatís your fault. Get a hobbywing or tekin, even though they are top tier companies for escís and mod motors thatís your fault. Everyone knows what companies make good motors. Thatís competition. Sorry ďyourĒ company canít produce a quality competive product.


Also, this shows that maybe we are getting to focused on ďbigĒ events. What happened to club racing being the bread and butter of this hobby? I canít see local tracks having the time or resources to spec out multiple rental motors or privately purchased motors for parity each week. And you better believe if they donít, cheating will be more rampant than it is now. Iíll just give my motor to an oval guy, they know all the tricks. I canít wait to see the crazy ideas and how much money is going to be spent trying to lighten the drivetrain on these cars.

And what happens if I get a rental handout, that Iím running at the prescribed FDR, then get passed like Iím sitting still in the straight? Or the opposite, and I get one that blows past the rest of the heat? Better yet, my motor goes up in smoke, what happens?

There is a tremendous amount of cart before the horse here. If Can-Am is expecting this to catch on and other tracks to endorse it, there needs to be a lot more laid out on how to handle these types of situations, and ways for smaller tracks to mitigate the cost and time constraints they have that ďbigĒ events donít.

Not to mention, all the money I have already invested in the motors I have, that will now be paperweights. Isnít this what this series is supposed to be eliminating? Oh wait, itís ok when itís your idea from a company you have approved.

Bottom line is this, there will never be equality. Best we can hope for is pairity. And I believe thatís what we have now. The biggest difference will come from the nut behind the wheel.
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mleemor60 View Post
Post 52 reply number 1, what. Disappointment in the current state of stock racing. End of sentence. Chasing expenses, as stated motor/rotor, etc not changing outcomes. End of sentence.

Without a clearly defined set of parameters as to what is actually "stock" how can the issue be clearly defined. It all sounds like Trump speak. Who among you can provide the accepted parameters for what is stock. From a class standpoint. Here in North America as well as the rest of the world. It seems simple enough regardless of where you are in the world. Designate a chassis, open the box and build it. Designate a motor/ESC combo, open the box and install it and so on down the line for every system you want to regulate. Drop the flag and race. If somebody laps the field with comparable lap times you congratulate him. If someone pulls the field by yards down the straight but finishes 5 laps down you look into what he is doing.

What is the sought after goal based on the reply listed above? Is it to have a clearly defined class where rookies and wanna be's have a place to play? Then count me in. Do we want to have clearly defined cost cutting measures that will keep us from dipping into our IRA's? Count me in again. Are we trying to do these things in an effort to exclude participants because of skill level or to exclude a manufacturer because he won't stoop down and smooch a brown eye then count me out.

If the goal is to have fun then there should be no penalty for skill or ones ability to pay for the very best available as long as the best available fits specifically into the well planned and thought out structure that you want to build or build on.
There is no "clear stock class" it used to be 27t single. Machine wound motors ... Then it went to a comparable speed in the first crop of 13.5 Novak motors ... Then after things got more refined they (sanctioning bodies ) inlisted 17.5 as the new stock ... And after 6+ yrs they decided to make 21.5 the new stock class in the usa ... All tue while over seas 13.5 is still the main stock class ...
Stock is a word to allow people to feel like everyone is on the same level currently ,when in reality its not even close ... If you dont have a cheater motor you will not be in the a sort. Period ... And as of right now trinity has the best cheater motor 3 other companies following very close ... Can I prove this ? No, unless someone is willing to send the motors to someone that has the tools to measure such small changes in parts and compare them to submitted motors which roar has ... Before you even ask roar knows this issue but don't have the 100k to fight it out in court so they keep there heads down and do the best they can to stay afloat . now if this dont answer some questions you had in the past 24hrs that somehow slipped thru the tracks over the past 4 months of discussion I can't help ...
Racers are tired of knowing theirs cheater one off unicorn motors in a race with them in a "stock/superstock/spec" class where you bring your own motor to compete... This structure which isnt perfect is the best a large group of racers have came up with to help everyone out ... No padding of pockets ,no behind scenes bs or special favors . it is what it is true equal handout racing ... Where you bring your car and the driver and the race provides the hp to potoentally win ... Motors are not stressed even the slightest with the proper gearing for each track. So they can be reissued to future events to allow racers to get out cheap and manufactures still make there smae profit over a period of time ... Can-am has no financial gain in this projected structure . racers are the ones saving money and time ...
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