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Old 11-27-2018, 10:35 AM   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: Joe Kimble
Cheaters Suck.
MOTOR OF MONTH NO MORE!!!
3.5mm MALE bullet connectors are REQUIRED
at all CanAm races

CanAm Motor & Transmission Specs
USGT
ORCA------------4.40min FDR Indoors-------------169g

STOCK TC
TEAM POWERS------5.40 min FDR Indoors-----------------173g

SUPER STOCK TC
SCORPION-----6.20 min FDR Indoor--------------------170g

CanAm Stock 1/12th
TEAM SCREAM-------------OPEN-----------------------160g

CanAm Super Stock 1/12th
TEAM SCREAM-----------35T/88T-----------------------160g

CanAm F1
SCORPION-----------------28T/92T-----------------------170g

CanAm WGTR
ORCA---------------------36T/92T-----------------------169g


TC/USGT Likely Spur/Pinion Combinations
USGT
1.7 Internal
96/37 => 4.411 FDR
101/39 => 4.403 FDR

1.80 Internal
93/38 => 4.405 FDR
98/40 => 4.410 FDR

1.85 Internal
100/42 => 4.405 FDR

1.9 Internal
95/41 => 4.402 FDR
102/44 => 4.405 FDR

2.0 Internal
99/45 => 4.400 FDR

STOCK TC INDOOR
1.7 Internal
102/32 => 5.419 FDR
105/33 => 5.409 FDR
108/34 => 5.400 FDR

1.80 Internal
99/33 => 5.400FDR
102/34 => 5
.400 FDR
105/35 => 5
.400 FDR
108/36 => 5
.400 FDR
111/37 => 5
.400 FDR

1.85 Internal
108/37 => 5.400 FDR
111/38 => 5.404 FDR
114/39 => 5.408 FDR

1.9 Internal
108/38 => 5.400 FDR
111/39 => 5.408 FDR

2.0 Internal
92/34 => 5.412 FDR
100/37 => 5.405 FDR
108/40 => 5.400 FDR

SUPER STOCK TC INDOOR
1.7 Internal

106/29 => 6.214 FDR
110/30 => 6.233 FDR

1.80 Internal
100/29 => 6.207 FDR
107/31 => 6.213 FDR
114/33 => 6.218 FDR

1.85 Internal
104/31 => 6.206 FDR
114/34 => 6.203 FDR

1.9 Internal
98/30 => 6.207 FDR
108/33 => 6.218 FDR
111/34 => 6.203 FDR

2.0 Internal
112/36 => 6.222 FDR

NB: Serpent Project 4X was checked and due to the O.D. of the center pulley the internal is not exactly 2.000. Testing revealed it is closer to 2.005. For Serpent Cars ONLY, the drivers who wish to be as close as possible to the Minimum FDR can use the following spur/pinion combinations: SS TC => 99/32; Stock TC => 97/36; USGT => 101/46.

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Old 09-03-2018, 06:25 AM
  #376  
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Originally Posted by hanulec View Post
hi snowy-
#1 to be prepared for the event--
1.a. have male bullets on your motor a-b-c wires
1.b. have the necessary gears to make the posted FDR at Classes . not all classes have the FDR posted as we are having multiple tracks test these FDR to make sure they make sense. USGT, WGT-R, F1 all pending still
1.c. if you want to "test" for the event run your existing 21.5 USGT motor at the posted FDR.

#2 we have either a set FDR or pinion/spur combo specified in 6 of 7 classes. for stock tc the FDR is 5.40. some gear calc tools do rounding that makes your setup incorrect. a good / simple calc for your phone is: iGearChart. a variety of methods will be used during motor hand out to ensure your gears are checked/stamped plus we will do select post race FDR checks via a tool that interfaces w/ the motor sensor wire to read motor RPM and measures wheel RPM
Hefty Jesus, thank you for the quick response.
At face value that sounds simple, but I don't know if it will play out that way.
1a: Most racers don't currently use bullet connectors on the motor. Are we forced/required to use bullets, or can we discard them? I personally have the fear of a phase wire becoming disconnected while on track. The last thing I want is to short out the ESC with a loose wire. And not to mention that the qualifier/race is over. We have been hard wiring components in the hobby for twenty plus years. I know it is meant to be easier, just not sold on it yet. #olddognewtricks (And bullets allow one to be super funny to reverse your buddies, or random racers wire phasing while they are not looking.)
1b: Waiting for ratio for USGT...
1c: You recommend using my current USGT motor and gearing at an currently unknown ratio to start testing the car for the class. (See 1b) However, I am not sure if that will work. I setup my 21.5 and 17.5 motors basically the same. The 17.5 gets a tick more timing but very close. With that I have found that my USGT gearing is typically two teeth higher than my 17.5 gearing. So if 17.5 ratio is 5.4, then USGT gearing I suspect will be somewhere between 5.2-4.8 ratio. Using my current motor at those ratios, the Monday morning bench racer in me suspects that the car will be well under geared. To the point that I could add timing to the motor to take advantage of/compensate for the lower gearing. The real question I was asking here is how do I practice for USGT-CanAm with out a CanAm motor? What performance benchmarks/traits with the Can-Am Orca spec motors have? Please tell us how the motors will be prepared/tuned. We as racers can attempt to tune our motors to match.

2: Yes, I can calculate gear ratios. That is what excel is for. We all have or preferred ways to do that. However, I don't feel my question was answered. Is the whole class required to run the spec ratio, or within a point of it? Or are we allowed to gear lower/slower than that max ratio. I recall reports from IIC in the past that the spec hand out Tekin motors liked to be geared under/slower than the identified max ratio, and that was cool. Can we do that?
2b: You bring up another question of enforcement. What is going to be standard for "go" vs. "no go" ratios? If the max ratio is 5.20, then I suspect anything 5.199 and below would fail. Example: (104/38)x1.9=5.20 dead nuts on = PASS. (96/35)x1.9=5.211 = PASS. (100/37)x1.9=5.135 = FAIL. If a racer has the correct ratio in the car between between Spur, Pinion and Transmission Ratio, and no 3d printed pulleys or gears are found, that should be all that is needed, Right? Connecting that ratio.gizmo.monstrosity thing seem excessive and a time suck if the drive components are correct.

Snowy.
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Old 09-03-2018, 07:43 AM
  #377  
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After a brief conversation with E.A. yesterday, I have a better understanding. It's amazing how someone can answer a question clearly and not get butthurt by the question.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by KE4PJO View Post
After a brief conversation with E.A. yesterday, I have a better understanding. It's amazing how someone can answer a question clearly and not get butthurt by the question.
Care to enlighten the rest of us?
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mooby64 View Post
Care to enlighten the rest of us?
First off I will say, I was never opposed to the concept of CanAm and I'm still not. I think it's the, almost, ideal way to address the motor issues for the traveling R.C. road show and the "motor of the month" club.
He just simply answered the two questions I asked on this thread that weren't addressed.
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Essnowyt View Post
Hefty Jesus, thank you for the quick response.
At face value that sounds simple, but I don't know if it will play out that way.
1a: Most racers don't currently use bullet connectors on the motor. Are we forced/required to use bullets, or can we discard them? I personally have the fear of a phase wire becoming disconnected while on track. The last thing I want is to short out the ESC with a loose wire. And not to mention that the qualifier/race is over. We have been hard wiring components in the hobby for twenty plus years. I know it is meant to be easier, just not sold on it yet. #olddognewtricks (And bullets allow one to be super funny to reverse your buddies, or random racers wire phasing while they are not looking.)
1b: Waiting for ratio for USGT...
1c: You recommend using my current USGT motor and gearing at an currently unknown ratio to start testing the car for the class. (See 1b) However, I am not sure if that will work. I setup my 21.5 and 17.5 motors basically the same. The 17.5 gets a tick more timing but very close. With that I have found that my USGT gearing is typically two teeth higher than my 17.5 gearing. So if 17.5 ratio is 5.4, then USGT gearing I suspect will be somewhere between 5.2-4.8 ratio. Using my current motor at those ratios, the Monday morning bench racer in me suspects that the car will be well under geared. To the point that I could add timing to the motor to take advantage of/compensate for the lower gearing. The real question I was asking here is how do I practice for USGT-CanAm with out a CanAm motor? What performance benchmarks/traits with the Can-Am Orca spec motors have? Please tell us how the motors will be prepared/tuned. We as racers can attempt to tune our motors to match.

2: Yes, I can calculate gear ratios. That is what excel is for. We all have or preferred ways to do that. However, I don't feel my question was answered. Is the whole class required to run the spec ratio, or within a point of it? Or are we allowed to gear lower/slower than that max ratio. I recall reports from IIC in the past that the spec hand out Tekin motors liked to be geared under/slower than the identified max ratio, and that was cool. Can we do that?
2b: You bring up another question of enforcement. What is going to be standard for "go" vs. "no go" ratios? If the max ratio is 5.20, then I suspect anything 5.199 and below would fail. Example: (104/38)x1.9=5.20 dead nuts on = PASS. (96/35)x1.9=5.211 = PASS. (100/37)x1.9=5.135 = FAIL. If a racer has the correct ratio in the car between between Spur, Pinion and Transmission Ratio, and no 3d printed pulleys or gears are found, that should be all that is needed, Right? Connecting that ratio.gizmo.monstrosity thing seem excessive and a time suck if the drive components are correct.

Snowy.
On your last question if the set FDR is 5.50 you can gear 5.55, 5.65, 5.80 etc. But you can not gear 5.49999 or anything with a smaller (numerically) FDR number than 5.50.

EA
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Old 09-03-2018, 08:55 AM
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Hanulec would you be able to post the dimensions of the motors with the female connectors for the connector sections? Specifically the width and length of them, thank you in advanced.
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:55 AM
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The only spec is that the connector is 3.5mm, female, on the motor.
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Old 09-03-2018, 09:58 AM
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Snowy -
Everyone must supply their own male bullets.
For the gearing/ pre testing -- I think your over thinking it.
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Old 09-03-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Essnowyt View Post
Hefty Jesus, thank you for the quick response.
At face value that sounds simple, but I don't know if it will play out that way.
1a: Most racers don't currently use bullet connectors on the motor. Are we forced/required to use bullets, or can we discard them? I personally have the fear of a phase wire becoming disconnected while on track. The last thing I want is to short out the ESC with a loose wire. And not to mention that the qualifier/race is over. We have been hard wiring components in the hobby for twenty plus years. I know it is meant to be easier, just not sold on it yet. #olddognewtricks (And bullets allow one to be super funny to reverse your buddies, or random racers wire phasing while they are not looking.)
1b: Waiting for ratio for USGT...
1c: You recommend using my current USGT motor and gearing at an currently unknown ratio to start testing the car for the class. (See 1b) However, I am not sure if that will work. I setup my 21.5 and 17.5 motors basically the same. The 17.5 gets a tick more timing but very close. With that I have found that my USGT gearing is typically two teeth higher than my 17.5 gearing. So if 17.5 ratio is 5.4, then USGT gearing I suspect will be somewhere between 5.2-4.8 ratio. Using my current motor at those ratios, the Monday morning bench racer in me suspects that the car will be well under geared. To the point that I could add timing to the motor to take advantage of/compensate for the lower gearing. The real question I was asking here is how do I practice for USGT-CanAm with out a CanAm motor? What performance benchmarks/traits with the Can-Am Orca spec motors have? Please tell us how the motors will be prepared/tuned. We as racers can attempt to tune our motors to match.

Snowy.
As for the plugs ... Are you just now hearing about this ? This was a topic of discussion at length for about a week a month ago . lol its also discussed on the can Am web page . So just to bring it to your attention so you dont have to read thru all these valuable posts in this thread ill answer it .
Yes bullets are required at all can Am events to aid in motor tech and return in rental motors . this plug thing .... Is a simple thing . ets does it this way as well as atleast 3 track that have been testing can Am for the past yr . no Speedo failures or disconnected plugs .
As far as your usgt gearing ratio question ... The gearratio will be public before the motor is . so keep running your usgt car just like you have been if your setup works with your current motor speeds it will work with the camam motor speeds ... But if you are wanting to feel the usgt can Am style speed just back your timing down on your current motor -5/-10 deg with your same gearing you have been using ...this shouod allow your car to top out at about 1/2 of the strait (dependind on strait away length )
If you have any other questions you might want to check the website in sure all the details are covered there more thoroughly

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Old 09-03-2018, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by thecaptain View Post
Hanulec would you be able to post the dimensions of the motors with the female connectors for the connector sections? Specifically the width and length of them, thank you in advanced.
All the motors are slightly different in shape (just like any other motor ) so the actual opening of the female hole is within the same area but not identical ... You have to be able to relate in real world application ...😉
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Old 09-03-2018, 01:00 PM
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Default Tech gear ratio

Sorry for the question that has probably been answered, read a lot but did not see it.
At the club level what is the easiest way to tech gear ratios? Do you have to pull each carís spur and pinion off?
Thanks and God Bless,
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Old 09-03-2018, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsaves View Post
Sorry for the question that has probably been answered, read a lot but did not see it.
At the club level what is the easiest way to tech gear ratios? Do you have to pull each carís spur and pinion off?
Thanks and God Bless,
You will also have to check the belt pulleys and diff ring gear&pinion in the A700, etc.... Lots of tech work , lots of ways around too.....
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Old 09-03-2018, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jsaves View Post
Sorry for the question that has probably been answered, read a lot but did not see it.
At the club level what is the easiest way to tech gear ratios? Do you have to pull each carís spur and pinion off?
Thanks and God Bless,
Caliper for size of pinion / spur
FDR meeter hooked up to ecs for fdr
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Old 09-03-2018, 03:22 PM
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I'm ordering gears tomorrow, can anyone that's tested give a rollout range for 12th stock ? Thanks
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Old 09-03-2018, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Racermac73 View Post
I'm ordering gears tomorrow, can anyone that's tested give a rollout range for 12th stock ? Thanks
Three gears tested-

70/54
70/61
70/48 (or 46)

54 was the fastest of three tested
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