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Belting it out - who's using what belts for their cars? And what do you do to them?

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Belting it out - who's using what belts for their cars? And what do you do to them?

Old 05-04-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom1977 View Post
That the driveline runs smoother is a fact that i can hear with my ears.
I never wrote, that my car is 0.1 faster than without lube, cause I never tested the difference. But the belt silicone do no harm to your belt, so you can test it or leave it. As I wrote above, it's a question.
I think we had a translation error. I was just asking if you had done test to back up a claim like that.

Don't you think some one like xray would go through with coating their belts in silicone if it helped?
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Old 05-04-2018, 07:42 AM
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Having the belts free is always a good thing but it doesn't really matter if you're not at least taking the outdrive bearings into consideration. I believe you'll find that using high quality bearing matters much more than using silicone on your belts. The low friction belts, the belt tension, the outdrive bearings and the axle bearings have to be considered as a whole. To get the maximum potential, the entire drivetrain has to be freed up. High quality bearings can reduction a lot of friction....but at a cost. Tricked out belts on mediocre bearings may not be very worthwhile.
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Old 05-04-2018, 09:33 AM
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I just put new belts on my two TC7.1's. I decided to try the Yokomo Low Friction Stock belts: BD-189LB and BD-516LB. They do feel more flexible than the Associated belts I removed.
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Old 05-04-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Darkgenerals View Post
Does friction of the belt interfacing the cog actually mater? I'm trying to figure out if your saying a light weight belt would help or if reducing friction between the gear and belt would help.( I've had my coffee this morning, but I'm having a stupid moment) I'm actively searching for research papers into friction on a gear pulley system. Gates has some great papers, but they don't mention much about friction.
Its not necessarily the friction, but how flexible/pliable they are. As the belt goes over the pulley, a certain force is required to bend the pullley. Belts are made from different materials and if a belt is stiffer, there's going to be an energy loss in the bending of the belt because more force is required to do so.

Agree - this is probably diminishing returns but why not? You see what the 2wd off-roaders are doing with their gears? Why are folks using titanium instead of steel screws? For some folks its about chasing the gains, the engineering. That is fun for some folks!
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Darkgenerals View Post
Bicycle chains are a bad analogy. They have actual moving parts, where a belt does not. The friction of the links rubbing is what they are changing. and when you mention belt friction being linear function of width are you talking about smooth belts on smooth drums? I cant find anything on belt pulley system which use teeth instead of friction to transmit force.

I imagine car manufacturers test things like belt width vs longevity, but I do like the idea of thinner belts. Do you have a method in mind to test changes in rolling resistance?

Brain fart moment - Does friction of the belt interfacing the cog actually mater? I'm trying to figure out if your saying a light weight belt would help or if reducing friction between the gear and belt would help.( I've had my coffee this morning, but I'm having a stupid moment) I'm actively searching for research papers into friction on a gear pulley system. Gates has some great papers, but they don't mention much about friction.
Maybe the bike chain is a bad analogy, but how do we know? Things move in belts too, the fibers in the load bearing structures aren't totally fixed. Does this mean there's a break in time, where the belt loosens up? People indicate that there is some initial stretch, where is that coming from? If I were to guess, it'st he breakdown of adhesion between the rubber substrate and the belt fibers. When I spoke to the belt manufacturer yesterday, they indicated that fiberglass belts are better than amarid when it comes to energy transfer because it has less resistance to flexing, yet... the "better" belts tend to have amarid?

The force needed to bend the belt, and overcome the tooth the pulley interface scales linearly with belt width. Modern rubbers have some bending losses, I called it hysterisis. This is a function of "how far, and how much rubber" you're bending.

Yes, I have ways of testing friction. :-) I just need to find the time to try it out. This is a "fairly easy" thing to do, between a wattmeter and some reasonable kind of load. I think the testing could be done. I have two setups in mind.

Friction versus the cog does matter. Tamiya sells low friction pulleys for "at least" that reason. Talking to the belt manufacturer, they indicated that teflon, or other low friction coatings on the pulleys is one way of addressing driveline friction.

I don't think belt weight has a significant effect on what we're looking at. ..... I'm about to head to the track. I'll toss some notes your way later tonight. I"ll happily share all my thoughts on this when I can dedicate more time to it, and get you some drawings.

No, i'm not sure that r/c car companies have done good research on this. Or, if they have, are willing to say anything about it. It's not in their best interests to do so.
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Old 05-05-2018, 05:32 AM
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While I’m curious as to what your testing shows. I wouldn’t expect much difference in actual lap times. At least not at the lower levels of RC racing. For the elite .01 percent maybe that .001 of a second per lap could be the difference.
I’ve read of drivers shaving every third tooth of belts to save weight. Don’t know if thats truly legal. But I’ve read of it being done before
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Old 05-05-2018, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Billy Kelly View Post
While Iím curious as to what your testing shows. I wouldnít expect much difference in actual lap times. At least not at the lower levels of RC racing. For the elite .01 percent maybe that .001 of a second per lap could be the difference.
Iíve read of drivers shaving every third tooth of belts to save weight. Donít know if thats truly legal. But Iíve read of it being done before
I can confirm, we used to cut every other tooth off. Again though like stated previously, these changes will be very minimal gains if any. Cutting belts down will show gains but not in reliability. Remember when a spinning axle hits a barrier it can twist axles and the stress can translate through the driveline, skinny like say 1mm wide belt may not handle that moment of "force". I stock belts for my cars but aside from a drop of oil from time to time(smeared belt length) i don't mess with them much. As stated earlier bigger gains in bearing, batteries, driving....those will be much larger gains most likely.
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