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Old 02-10-2006, 11:16 AM   #1
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Default A lot of RC Racers don't understand the general etiquette of racing

Ok...so last weekend I was in a pretty good race for the lead with someone in our touring stock main. I stayed on his bumper pretty much the whole race, and we had separated ourselves from the rest of the field. I was being careful not to make any kind of move that would wreck either of us and was just waiting for him to make a mistake or give me enough room to pass. It had been a really exciting race the whole way (even tho there wasn't any passing yet) and it was shaping up to be really good at the end...until we came up on lap traffic. About 2 and a half minutes in, we caught the 10th place car. He generously pulled completely out of the groove and let us both go before continuing. But then we caught the 9th place car about a lap later. This guy went high and I thought he was letting us go also. The leader got under him in a sweeper and I followed. But the next corner was a sharp 180 in the opposite direction of the sweeper and with all the speed this guy had built up from running the outside of the sweeper, he overdrove the next corner and put his nose into the side of my car (yeah, the side, not even the back). This put my car nose first into the outside pipe, the turnmarshall went to his car before mine, and by the time i got going i had lost about 10-12 seconds on the leader.

My beef: This isn't the first time this has happened to me and i have seen it happen to others all the time too. I'm a huge fan of racing in general, and every other kind of racing i watch the racers respect the leaders in a sort of "racing etiquette." You don't have to pull completely out of the groove like the first car i mentioned (although that is great), but just realize that if you are battling for 8th place; the battle for the lead is more important: just give the leaders the postion if they have managed to get under you. When I race state races, I am not A-main material...I take notice of who in my heat is going to have a chance to get to the A, and give them the position when they catch me. And if I get lapped in a main, I try to make sure not to interfere with the leaders.

It seems like a large portion of rc racers have little or no awarness of who is who on the track and just race hard against anyone who tries to pass them. I have tried calling out "that's leader" or whatever, but it seems like people still don't realize your talking to them, or choose not to listen. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people that i love to race with, and thats why i race rc cars, it would just be nice if everyone in the hobby followed this etiquette a little. It just seems like common sense to me and a lot of my friends; I didn't even have to learn to let faster cars go when i first started racing; it just came natural. Anyway, i am just venting, let me know what you guys think about this subject.
TJ
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Old 02-10-2006, 11:24 AM   #2
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here, here
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Old 02-10-2006, 11:33 AM   #3
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This is where having a great race director comes in handy. I know I've been spoiled by racing at a track with a world-class announcer (Scotty Ernst/Trackside) and it really does make a difference when he calls traffic so everyone knows where everyone else is on track
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Old 02-10-2006, 11:40 AM   #4
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Totally agree,

A good race commentator helps a great deal and makes a race meeting much better.

We have a local lad doing it for us (sleighty on here) and hes great, uses quite a few quotes of his greatness scotty

But it really does make an atmosphere and make great racing, it also gets the crowds watching if they know which car is leading and which car is chasing etc. Great stuff
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:15 PM   #5
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Money86mcss
Ok...so last weekend I was in a pretty good race for the lead with someone in our touring stock main. I stayed on his bumper pretty much the whole race, and we had separated ourselves from the rest of the field. I was being careful not to make any kind of move that would wreck either of us and was just waiting for him to make a mistake or give me enough room to pass. It had been a really exciting race the whole way (even tho there wasn't any passing yet) and it was shaping up to be really good at the end...until we came up on lap traffic. About 2 and a half minutes in, we caught the 10th place car. He generously pulled completely out of the groove and let us both go before continuing. But then we caught the 9th place car about a lap later. This guy went high and I thought he was letting us go also. The leader got under him in a sweeper and I followed. But the next corner was a sharp 180 in the opposite direction of the sweeper and with all the speed this guy had built up from running the outside of the sweeper, he overdrove the next corner and put his nose into the side of my car (yeah, the side, not even the back). This put my car nose first into the outside pipe, the turnmarshall went to his car before mine, and by the time i got going i had lost about 10-12 seconds on the leader.

My beef: This isn't the first time this has happened to me and i have seen it happen to others all the time too. I'm a huge fan of racing in general, and every other kind of racing i watch the racers respect the leaders in a sort of "racing etiquette." You don't have to pull completely out of the groove like the first car i mentioned (although that is great), but just realize that if you are battling for 8th place; the battle for the lead is more important: just give the leaders the postion if they have managed to get under you. When I race state races, I am not A-main material...I take notice of who in my heat is going to have a chance to get to the A, and give them the position when they catch me. And if I get lapped in a main, I try to make sure not to interfere with the leaders.

It seems like a large portion of rc racers have little or no awarness of who is who on the track and just race hard against anyone who tries to pass them. I have tried calling out "that's leader" or whatever, but it seems like people still don't realize your talking to them, or choose not to listen. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people that i love to race with, and thats why i race rc cars, it would just be nice if everyone in the hobby followed this etiquette a little. It just seems like common sense to me and a lot of my friends; I didn't even have to learn to let faster cars go when i first started racing; it just came natural. Anyway, i am just venting, let me know what you guys think about this subject.
TJ
just a partial response to your original post:
where i race.. the turn marshalls pay close attention (close enough) so that if lap traffic takes out someone in the lead group, we try to marshall the guy from the lead group, then marshall the lap traffic. well at least thats what i try to do.

gary... scotty was definitely missed at last year's TCS nats.
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Old 02-10-2006, 12:21 PM   #7
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I have the same situation here in our local track, and the race director is not helping. Basically he is saying, if the leader caught up to the last position car, you still have to fight your way around it. He said if you two are in the same Lead lap then the last position guy can fight with the leader. That's BS to me. The track owner said that's how NASCAR works but I'm not a fan of NASCAR. I have been looking for official rule about passing in ROAR and NORRCA but couldn't find any info. Any help will be appreciated. I want to prove the track owner is wrong.
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dealer Xing
I have the same situation here in our local track, and the race director is not helping. Basically he is saying, if the leader caught up to the last position car, you still have to fight your way around it. He said if you two are in the same Lead lap then the last position guy can fight with the leader. That's BS to me. The track owner said that's how NASCAR works but I'm not a fan of NASCAR. I have been looking for official rule about passing in ROAR and NORRCA but couldn't find any info. Any help will be appreciated. I want to prove the track owner is wrong.
I used to be a corner worker (flagger) with SCCA before becoming a driver backin the '80's. Here is what we were taught for the blue (passing) flag and also in driver school when I went to get my license.

1.) It is the responsibility of the over taking driver to make a clean and safe pass (in R/C racing, the faster car often expects the slower car to pull off the track, park, and let him go by).
2.) A lapping situation calls for a blue passing flag. As a driver, the passing flag tells you to check your mirrors as a faster car is coming up. Give them room to make a clean pass.

Since R/C is smaller than 1:1 scale, and less track space to pass, it is considered a courtesy / unwritten rule that a lapper give room. I agree totally with this. Both when I was being lapped, and as I got better, doing the lapping. Remember that some drivers (and in the lower classes most) only see about two feet in front of the nose of thier car the whole race. They are so focused on just their car, they don't even see a faster car coming. And if they do, the usually don't even know if it is a faster car lapping them, or a car that crashed and they passed and are now battling for position.

Tell your track owner that if he decides to implement full course yellow flags, then he can compare to Nascar. That is why they battle not to get lapped. Road Racing is a different sport.

I race with Hebiki locally and concur with how we try to reset the leaders cars first in an incident. If it is two cars racing for position, the puntee usually gets the courtesy first, then the punter will get righted.

It's nice to have a good track announcer help, but nothing beats good 'ol talking on the driver stand. That's talking, not telling someone to get the *&$% out of your way becuase your the leader. Unfortunately, some people just won't care (heard of red mist ?). If it is a local track you run regularly with the same guys, you may want to talk to them after a race. I was having that problem with a guy race after race lapping him so I talked to him after a race. He didn't realisize it was me and we are good friends. Since that friendly chat, he knows the color of my car and has been very good about giving me room.
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Old 02-10-2006, 01:33 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dealer Xing
I have the same situation here in our local track, and the race director is not helping. Basically he is saying, if the leader caught up to the last position car, you still have to fight your way around it. He said if you two are in the same Lead lap then the last position guy can fight with the leader. That's BS to me. The track owner said that's how NASCAR works but I'm not a fan of NASCAR. I have been looking for official rule about passing in ROAR and NORRCA but couldn't find any info. Any help will be appreciated. I want to prove the track owner is wrong.
Tell your race director to look at a road racing series for his examples of how a lapped car shoud act, not a series where there is a caution flag every 20-30 laps that lets the slow cars catch back up and have a shot at a win.

Edit: Has this window open too long before posting, the post before pretty much sums it up.

Another thing I would like to add though, if you and another car are battling for position and the leaders are coming up, try and maintain your relative positions when you let them by. If your the front car, don't take a big advantage if the car behind you loses more ground as you let the leaders by, and if your the trailing car, don't use the opportunity to make up time or pass the car you've been battling with.
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Old 02-10-2006, 02:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin CBR
I used to be a corner worker (flagger) with SCCA before becoming a driver backin the '80's. Here is what we were taught for the blue (passing) flag and also in driver school when I went to get my license.

1.) It is the responsibility of the over taking driver to make a clean and safe pass (in R/C racing, the faster car often expects the slower car to pull off the track, park, and let him go by).
2.) A lapping situation calls for a blue passing flag. As a driver, the passing flag tells you to check your mirrors as a faster car is coming up. Give them room to make a clean pass.

Since R/C is smaller than 1:1 scale, and less track space to pass, it is considered a courtesy / unwritten rule that a lapper give room. I agree totally with this. Both when I was being lapped, and as I got better, doing the lapping. Remember that some drivers (and in the lower classes most) only see about two feet in front of the nose of thier car the whole race. They are so focused on just their car, they don't even see a faster car coming. And if they do, the usually don't even know if it is a faster car lapping them, or a car that crashed and they passed and are now battling for position.

Tell your track owner that if he decides to implement full course yellow flags, then he can compare to Nascar. That is why they battle not to get lapped. Road Racing is a different sport.

I race with Hebiki locally and concur with how we try to reset the leaders cars first in an incident. If it is two cars racing for position, the puntee usually gets the courtesy first, then the punter will get righted.

It's nice to have a good track announcer help, but nothing beats good 'ol talking on the driver stand. That's talking, not telling someone to get the *&$% out of your way becuase your the leader. Unfortunately, some people just won't care (heard of red mist ?). If it is a local track you run regularly with the same guys, you may want to talk to them after a race. I was having that problem with a guy race after race lapping him so I talked to him after a race. He didn't realisize it was me and we are good friends. Since that friendly chat, he knows the color of my car and has been very good about giving me room.
but in scca, i beleive you can get black flagged for not observing the blue flags.
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Old 02-10-2006, 02:51 PM   #11
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but in scca, i beleive you can get black flagged for not observing the blue flags.
black flag? isnt that the roach killer? wow thats pretty harsh. isnt that stuff toxic? just teasing guys. good topic and good replies.
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:01 PM   #12
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If I don't slow down the cars that are trying to lap me how will I ever catch up to them?
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hebiki
black flag? isnt that the roach killer? wow thats pretty harsh. isnt that stuff toxic? just teasing guys. good topic and good replies.

I think the black flag has a bomb on it. hehehe so you are right on the money
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Old 02-10-2006, 03:08 PM   #14
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I have been to events where the announcer calls the race, announces who is in all the positions but basically escorts the leader around the track. Second, third, and so forth do not get the escort help from the announcer. With it as hard as it is for an announcer to call and race and watch for intentional hacking(or unintentional) it makes it impossible to be fair to all those in the race. Can you justufy the announcer making the lappers get out of the way of the leader, but not for second or third place which could be charging hard?

I have also been to races where the announcer did not escort the leaders around the track but kept up with where everyone was at on the track. TO me this is much better, this allows the drivers to be aware of where who is and what position they hold. In this style of announcing, the announcer never asks anyone to move ou tof the way for fater cars, he leaves that up to the cars. Personally my favorite way because if you are fast enough to catch a car to lap them before the race is over, you can wait the couple turns it will take for the lapped car to make a mistake and blow out wide enough to pass and most of the time they do not correct themselves fast enough to take you out in the following corner.

Now for the worst case, the announcer only saying who is in the lead with no regards to the other positions. This makes it so absolutely no one other than the leader knows who is racing for what and where they are at.

These guys who get out of your way in one corner and then plow through you in the next at club races really only need to have that explained to them and what to look for so it doesn't happen again. This is where the unwritten rule of letting the faster guys go and not wrecking helps not hurt your time. I would bet that when this happens that most just get mad and yell at the guy, trust me I know I ahve yelled at a lot of guys for this, but I have also went up to them and talked to them about it and offered advise to help make them better to help that from happening again. This seems to work the best, I do understand that this does not always work and people will still get angry from this happeneing, but those few it does help, you will not have to worry about them hitting you when you lap them. Just the ones it does not help, you will just have to remember what their cars look like and be causious around them when you pass.

Best thing I ever heard was "NEVER PASS LAPPED TRAFFIC ON THE OUTSIDE", that is unless your Cole Trickle with special matched stagered tires in turn 4. lol
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Old 02-10-2006, 04:35 PM   #15
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I actually find that when the regular hot shoes arn't doing so well, and I come around to lap them, they don't observe the same rules because they are used to being the ones out ahead.

I also tell people who are slower, that a good driver will find a way around without having to ask for the position. in the end you'll be a better driver, sure you may loose one here and there,but that's racing.

I also consider slower cars the ever changing race obsticle, First you have the permanent layout, and second you have lap traffic. if you think of another car as part of the layout, it's easier to find the quickest way around them.

But the worst thing is when a slower car tries to let you go by, (and it almost never fails) and they stop in the worst place possible, I know they ment well, and for that I can't get mad.
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