698LikesHandout motors
11-13-2018, 01:59 PM
#661
Is there even time to cheat in competitive RC racing.. holy crap this stuff never ends.
Like stated before usually the cheaters aren't doing anything positive with chassis tuning, driving or even passing people with speed. If half the racers stopped focusing on what "cheaters are doing" or who may be cheating.. how they are cheating or thinking about ways they may cheat in the future and just spend all that effort on their own program and their own legal class efforts the results would be in your favour 100% imo. Are the top dogs all across the country cheating? No. Are some of them? Maybe? Does the cheating out way driving, hard work or good tuning knowledge? I think not.
I run everything legal.. I put effort.. I have good results imo for my own gig, & I don't think about cheating at the track because I'm to busy just doing the dam thing the right way. Handout motor, or traditional 17.5 rules just put in the work and get it done. Do you guys think Cheaters are on top and stay on top? Never seen that carry out for ever. Maybe they get away with it for a minute or two but karma, rules, tech or a fellow racer will kill that for them.
Happy Racing all. Keep this thread on the positive note after all that's what handout motor classes were intended for. But nah.. some have to complain about this idea as well.
Like stated before usually the cheaters aren't doing anything positive with chassis tuning, driving or even passing people with speed. If half the racers stopped focusing on what "cheaters are doing" or who may be cheating.. how they are cheating or thinking about ways they may cheat in the future and just spend all that effort on their own program and their own legal class efforts the results would be in your favour 100% imo. Are the top dogs all across the country cheating? No. Are some of them? Maybe? Does the cheating out way driving, hard work or good tuning knowledge? I think not.
I run everything legal.. I put effort.. I have good results imo for my own gig, & I don't think about cheating at the track because I'm to busy just doing the dam thing the right way. Handout motor, or traditional 17.5 rules just put in the work and get it done. Do you guys think Cheaters are on top and stay on top? Never seen that carry out for ever. Maybe they get away with it for a minute or two but karma, rules, tech or a fellow racer will kill that for them.
Happy Racing all. Keep this thread on the positive note after all that's what handout motor classes were intended for. But nah.. some have to complain about this idea as well.
11-13-2018, 02:01 PM
#662
If you cheat in toy car racing just tie a noose and do everyone a favour 
11-13-2018, 02:05 PM
#663
You really have no idea or you do not want to know because you hate the concept forever what reason....
Stockracing with handout motors is done with motors with a fixed endbell timing and a blinky or a stock ESC. With no handout rule I have seen it closeby that people do modify the endbell or resolder the sensors to gain more timing. Rotors are replaced by others and some people do even rewind the stators for less wire, most stuff that can only be done outside the races. To be sure motors are not swapped secret markings on the outside and even inside are sometimes made to detect this.
You will be amazed how close a field can become if you only show all the tools to detect cheating on motors, I have seen this happen!
Stockracing with handout motors is done with motors with a fixed endbell timing and a blinky or a stock ESC. With no handout rule I have seen it closeby that people do modify the endbell or resolder the sensors to gain more timing. Rotors are replaced by others and some people do even rewind the stators for less wire, most stuff that can only be done outside the races. To be sure motors are not swapped secret markings on the outside and even inside are sometimes made to detect this.
You will be amazed how close a field can become if you only show all the tools to detect cheating on motors, I have seen this happen!
If you want to do handout motors, fine. Spec gearing and locked timing on those would be a mistake and detrimental to the cause of producing better racers. The only advantage to making motors need to be turned back in would be to have your racers get better at setting gear mesh.
There just aren't many cheaters, and most are caught immediately. Good racers don't have to cheat.
11-13-2018, 02:13 PM
#664
This is just another way of saying what is the most popular opinion on RCTech. Make enough rules to make the motor tuning knowledge of a racer irrelevant, and at the same time make the cars so slow that the guy in last only gets lapped three times instead of five.
If you want to do handout motors, fine. Spec gearing and locked timing on those would be a mistake and detrimental to the cause of producing better racers.
If you want to do handout motors, fine. Spec gearing and locked timing on those would be a mistake and detrimental to the cause of producing better racers.
13.5 blinky and Mod gives more knowledge and hence better racers: European style rc racing....
Who has the most World Titles???
How many of the European handout racers have World titles???
11-13-2018, 02:28 PM
#665
This is just another way of saying what is the most popular opinion on RCTech. Make enough rules to make the motor tuning knowledge of a racer irrelevant, enforce it ruthlessly by making the racers continuously disassemble their car because they have to turn the motor in between rounds, and at the same time make the cars so slow that the guy in last only gets lapped three times instead of five.
If you want to do handout motors, fine. Spec gearing and locked timing on those would be a mistake and detrimental to the cause of producing better racers. The only advantage to making motors need to be turned back in would be to have your racers get better at setting gear mesh.
There just aren't many cheaters, and most are caught immediately. Good racers don't have to cheat.
If you want to do handout motors, fine. Spec gearing and locked timing on those would be a mistake and detrimental to the cause of producing better racers. The only advantage to making motors need to be turned back in would be to have your racers get better at setting gear mesh.
There just aren't many cheaters, and most are caught immediately. Good racers don't have to cheat.
1) between rounds there is no turn in of the motor, You have no idea how its done...
2) We are not making the cars slow. While in the US you guys are running 17.5T and 21.5T spec motors with which everything can be done to run it as fast as modified we in Europe are running 10.5T and 13.5T with a locked timing and blinky with also a good speed. Again you have no idea...
3) Due a more equal power with a handout system the focus is more on the car setup and the driving instead of getting the most powerfull motor, that does not create better drivers???? Beside that, still there is a modified class if you want maximum speed w/o limiting rules on motor/ESC. Again no good arguement from your side.
11-13-2018, 03:15 PM
#666
You are compleetly wrong.....
1) between rounds there is no turn in of the motor, You have no idea how its done...
2) We are not making the cars slow. While in the US you guys are running 17.5T and 21.5T spec motors with which everything can be done to run it as fast as modified we in Europe are running 10.5T and 13.5T with a locked timing and blinky with also a good speed. Again you have no idea...
3) Due a more equal power with a handout system the focus is more on the car setup and the driving instead of getting the most powerfull motor, that does not create better drivers???? Beside that, still there is a modified class if you want maximum speed w/o limiting rules on motor/ESC. Again no good arguement from your side.
1) between rounds there is no turn in of the motor, You have no idea how its done...
2) We are not making the cars slow. While in the US you guys are running 17.5T and 21.5T spec motors with which everything can be done to run it as fast as modified we in Europe are running 10.5T and 13.5T with a locked timing and blinky with also a good speed. Again you have no idea...
3) Due a more equal power with a handout system the focus is more on the car setup and the driving instead of getting the most powerfull motor, that does not create better drivers???? Beside that, still there is a modified class if you want maximum speed w/o limiting rules on motor/ESC. Again no good arguement from your side.
How about we take all of these rules and make Novice the Spec Everything class. For experienced racers there should be a little more to the figuring out the power system of your car than waiting in line for your motor.
But I have no idea because I think that while a handout motor may work fine, the racers should own that motor and be able to adjust timing and gear... like they will have to if they ever put their big boy pants on and go race Stock. Screw me, right?
11-13-2018, 05:16 PM
#668
Are you saying that having an advantage through sound craftmanship is cheating ???
11-13-2018, 05:19 PM
#669
DesertRat-- it's not about "tuning" motors... It's about having equal and legal equipment.
The gear and timing limits in handouts circa 2018 are to drive effective motor reuse thru rentals.
If you haven't seen the inequality in motors or the cheating with larger wire in 2016/7 call yourself lucky.
The gear and timing limits in handouts circa 2018 are to drive effective motor reuse thru rentals.
If you haven't seen the inequality in motors or the cheating with larger wire in 2016/7 call yourself lucky.
11-13-2018, 05:21 PM
#670
Is it me, or are other people thinking the whole handout motor argument is a bit redundant now? If people want to implement it they will, if they don't they won't, you want to race the class, you play by the rules set down by those elected to do so.
Don't like it? Use appropriate channels, because forum and facebook b#tching about it just makes you a target (as I found) and that just opens up more and more bs which is all just too damn hard lol
It's toy cars....
Don't like it? Use appropriate channels, because forum and facebook b#tching about it just makes you a target (as I found) and that just opens up more and more bs which is all just too damn hard lol
It's toy cars....
11-13-2018, 08:56 PM
#674
Is it me, or are other people thinking the whole handout motor argument is a bit redundant now? If people want to implement it they will, if they don't they won't, you want to race the class, you play by the rules set down by those elected to do so.
Don't like it? Use appropriate channels, because forum and facebook b#tching about it just makes you a target (as I found) and that just opens up more and more bs which is all just too damn hard lol
It's toy cars....
Don't like it? Use appropriate channels, because forum and facebook b#tching about it just makes you a target (as I found) and that just opens up more and more bs which is all just too damn hard lol
It's toy cars....
11-13-2018, 10:39 PM
#675
OH boy this one is going to blow up
Which classes need it the worst?
How can the motor manufactures still showcase their product?
Cheap fixed/sealed motor or standard motors all set the same?
Does a specific wind matter or a unspecified motor labeled as "stock"? (similar to 360v2.
Which classes need it the worst?
How can the motor manufactures still showcase their product?
Cheap fixed/sealed motor or standard motors all set the same?
Does a specific wind matter or a unspecified motor labeled as "stock"? (similar to 360v2.
For open manufacturer racing, needed in classes where power is key (mini, stock tc).
But racing is also sometimes a technology/manufacturer battle, not a parity race.
So depends on your goal as an organizer. Promote racing where technological development is part of the excitement of racing (e.g Trinity vs Reedy), or go for varying degrees of parity (spec equipment).
Both already exist in the r/c world with success. It is not one is better than another.