698LikesHandout motors
05-01-2018, 11:48 PM
#526
Incorrect
It's not how much mah you use it's the fact that you get voltage drop over time.
See below this is a 6400mah LCG pack over a 6 minute race (and warm up) max amp draw is from the dead start. Only used 1150mah total but the voltage drop is evident. Higher MAH = less voltage drop = more speed
= BATTERY WAR!
A higher mah pack will have a flatter discharge curve (more horizontal) as it has a higher capacity. I will still use the same mah over the run
It's not how much mah you use it's the fact that you get voltage drop over time.
See below this is a 6400mah LCG pack over a 6 minute race (and warm up) max amp draw is from the dead start. Only used 1150mah total but the voltage drop is evident. Higher MAH = less voltage drop = more speed
= BATTERY WAR!
A higher mah pack will have a flatter discharge curve (more horizontal) as it has a higher capacity. I will still use the same mah over the run
Only question is. Where does the weight of the battery start taking away the advantage seen in the longer discharge curve?
05-02-2018, 12:44 AM
#527
Interesting....
One thing I think these handout motors will create is a battery war, we'll be all trying to run 8000-10000mah packs before long to minimize voltage drop over a race, even though we only use 1500-2000mah
So $180 battery packs will be in order?
I wonder if I can make this fit my tourer?
https://www.maxamps.com/lipo-22000-2s-7-4v-battery-pack
Also I notice Can-Am is checking kv on a motolyser. Wrong unit for the task (check the motolyser FAQ page)
One thing I think these handout motors will create is a battery war, we'll be all trying to run 8000-10000mah packs before long to minimize voltage drop over a race, even though we only use 1500-2000mah
So $180 battery packs will be in order?
I wonder if I can make this fit my tourer?
https://www.maxamps.com/lipo-22000-2s-7-4v-battery-pack
Also I notice Can-Am is checking kv on a motolyser. Wrong unit for the task (check the motolyser FAQ page)
It is the reason the idea of an RPM limiter and FDR makes sense. It is why the ETS series does exactly that in the spec class. Their spec class uses an ESC that has a built in RPM limiter and that, with a FDR limit, and a handout motor is what they run. It is one more piece to have to consider, but the ESC cost is actually not that much, so really it is not hard to add it into the equation, for the return it will bring with close, enjoyable races.
I am glad to see that the idea and effort is being put forth by those participating in the Can-Am series. Thanks :-)
05-02-2018, 12:47 AM
#528
I always have wondered how it can be that you have to run a spec class like the 17.5 and may spend thousends of dollars to let it run as a modified (if possible).
I have grown up with the idea that a spec/stock motor is something you take out of the box and mount it in the car w/o any tweaking and changes but even today with brushless that is far from the case.
But yes, look at the ETS, it is a very popular racing series with a 13.5T handout motor running a spec or blinky ESC and all motors are very close the same spec.
No people are whining it is too slow, too fast or they may not tweak the motors, they just run it as it is.
To be honest, that makes the handout so much better.
- it makes racing cheaper due a mass buy of 1 brand/model motor
- all running the same powerplant makes it more close racing
- people will not have questions of what tricks others are using
- people know the differences are comming from the car and driving
I have grown up with the idea that a spec/stock motor is something you take out of the box and mount it in the car w/o any tweaking and changes but even today with brushless that is far from the case.
But yes, look at the ETS, it is a very popular racing series with a 13.5T handout motor running a spec or blinky ESC and all motors are very close the same spec.
No people are whining it is too slow, too fast or they may not tweak the motors, they just run it as it is.
To be honest, that makes the handout so much better.
- it makes racing cheaper due a mass buy of 1 brand/model motor
- all running the same powerplant makes it more close racing
- people will not have questions of what tricks others are using
- people know the differences are comming from the car and driving
- motor is rented and turned in (part of entry fee)
- esc is set to a specifc brand for the class, which has a RPM limiter and is used, (esc can be owned or rented)
- motor is set to fixed timing, no adjustments or tampering
- gear ratios are specificly set for indoors and outdoors see rules
highly diminished and far from what be run here in the US where 13.5 is run as outlaw or superstock
17.5 and lower winds have been catching on in the EU, so what happened in US will happen there. what makes a 17.5 buggy cost more is all the lightweight parts, etc. to extract maximum power from the motor.
once stock 13.5 2wd in US was deemed too fast and stock was moved to 17.5 to slow the class down, that's when it started costing more to race 17.5 than previous 13.5, 10.5, and mod classes due to modifications to extract max power
Last edited by fast-ho-cars; 05-02-2018 at 01:02 AM.
05-02-2018, 01:18 AM
#529
The FAQs don’t say what you think they say, and, besides, they are actually out of date.
If you spoke to the motolyser people - and I don’t mean email the sales person - you would know this.
05-02-2018, 05:22 AM
#531
I do hope that all realize that if an esc that has a built in RPM limit and FDR was also used with a handout motor, that the battery war part of the equation could also be negated. Essentially by having the RPM limit the output, the battery voltage would not be a factor if the RPM used was what the motor would turn at in this example at 7.2 volts. This would mean that if the RPM was limited to 10,000 and the handout motor used produced that RPM at 7.2 volts, that even if you hooked up a battery at 8.4 volts, it would still only spin at 10,000 RPM, because that is what the limiter would limit it to.
It is the reason the idea of an RPM limiter and FDR makes sense. It is why the ETS series does exactly that in the spec class. Their spec class uses an ESC that has a built in RPM limiter and that, with a FDR limit, and a handout motor is what they run. It is one more piece to have to consider, but the ESC cost is actually not that much, so really it is not hard to add it into the equation, for the return it will bring with close, enjoyable races.
I am glad to see that the idea and effort is being put forth by those participating in the Can-Am series. Thanks :-)
It is the reason the idea of an RPM limiter and FDR makes sense. It is why the ETS series does exactly that in the spec class. Their spec class uses an ESC that has a built in RPM limiter and that, with a FDR limit, and a handout motor is what they run. It is one more piece to have to consider, but the ESC cost is actually not that much, so really it is not hard to add it into the equation, for the return it will bring with close, enjoyable races.
I am glad to see that the idea and effort is being put forth by those participating in the Can-Am series. Thanks :-)
05-02-2018, 05:58 AM
#532
Can you Can-am start a new thread. The word would get out faster.
05-02-2018, 12:45 PM
#534
Incorrect
It's not how much mah you use it's the fact that you get voltage drop over time.
See below this is a 6400mah LCG pack over a 6 minute race (and warm up) max amp draw is from the dead start. Only used 1150mah total but the voltage drop is evident. Higher MAH = less voltage drop = more speed
= BATTERY WAR!
A higher mah pack will have a flatter discharge curve (more horizontal) as it has a higher capacity. I will still use the same mah over the run
It's not how much mah you use it's the fact that you get voltage drop over time.
See below this is a 6400mah LCG pack over a 6 minute race (and warm up) max amp draw is from the dead start. Only used 1150mah total but the voltage drop is evident. Higher MAH = less voltage drop = more speed
= BATTERY WAR!
A higher mah pack will have a flatter discharge curve (more horizontal) as it has a higher capacity. I will still use the same mah over the run
what did you use to record that? What's the set up required for sensors and logging?
Thanks
05-02-2018, 12:59 PM
#535
Icharger + HomeEng | LogView
Last edited by dave-man; 05-02-2018 at 01:22 PM.
05-02-2018, 01:33 PM
#536
Nice! Thx!
05-02-2018, 03:26 PM
#537
This is what I've done in the past anyway. Looks like he uses Eagle Tree.
Icharger + HomeEng LogView
Icharger + HomeEng LogView
05-02-2018, 07:53 PM
#538
When a national champion can take a junk car- build it at a National event with a handout motor and TQ 's in the first qualifier and puts the car down and never races it again. The winner of the main was still a lap down from the TQ. It was not motor- battery- esc. Just driving skill. No motors will all be the same. NNothing will be the same unless you have some special way to make everything. Your never going to fit the everything equal. Do they do it in NASCAR????? Real racing? The most fun thing is just racing with my friends. Sometimes I win sometimes I lose I've been doing this a long time and still having fun- if you can't hack it maybe it's time to find a new hobby..
05-02-2018, 08:04 PM
#539
Tech Rookie
When a national champion can take a junk car- build it at a National event with a handout motor and TQ 's in the first qualifier and puts the car down and never races it again. The winner of the main was still a lap down from the TQ. It was not motor- battery- esc. Just driving skill. No motors will all be the same. NNothing will be the same unless you have some special way to make everything. Your never going to fit the everything equal. Do they do it in NASCAR????? Real racing? The most fun thing is just racing with my friends. Sometimes I win sometimes I lose I've been doing this a long time and still having fun- if you can't hack it maybe it's time to find a new hobby..
Great drivers always (usually?) win.
It's about what "cost" cheater motors and rotor of the week is impacting our hobby.
... And the folks behind this effort include a mulri-time NASCAR champion. Just sayin
05-02-2018, 11:24 PM
#540
As mentioned before, there is also a motivating difference with finishing in the same lap or 2 laps behind.