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Handout motors

Old 11-13-2018, 01:59 PM
  #661  
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Is there even time to cheat in competitive RC racing.. holy crap this stuff never ends.

Like stated before usually the cheaters aren't doing anything positive with chassis tuning, driving or even passing people with speed. If half the racers stopped focusing on what "cheaters are doing" or who may be cheating.. how they are cheating or thinking about ways they may cheat in the future and just spend all that effort on their own program and their own legal class efforts the results would be in your favour 100% imo. Are the top dogs all across the country cheating? No. Are some of them? Maybe? Does the cheating out way driving, hard work or good tuning knowledge? I think not.


I run everything legal.. I put effort.. I have good results imo for my own gig, & I don't think about cheating at the track because I'm to busy just doing the dam thing the right way. Handout motor, or traditional 17.5 rules just put in the work and get it done. Do you guys think Cheaters are on top and stay on top? Never seen that carry out for ever. Maybe they get away with it for a minute or two but karma, rules, tech or a fellow racer will kill that for them.

Happy Racing all. Keep this thread on the positive note after all that's what handout motor classes were intended for. But nah.. some have to complain about this idea as well.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:01 PM
  #662  
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If you cheat in toy car racing just tie a noose and do everyone a favour
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:05 PM
  #663  
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
You really have no idea or you do not want to know because you hate the concept forever what reason....
Stockracing with handout motors is done with motors with a fixed endbell timing and a blinky or a stock ESC. With no handout rule I have seen it closeby that people do modify the endbell or resolder the sensors to gain more timing. Rotors are replaced by others and some people do even rewind the stators for less wire, most stuff that can only be done outside the races. To be sure motors are not swapped secret markings on the outside and even inside are sometimes made to detect this.

You will be amazed how close a field can become if you only show all the tools to detect cheating on motors, I have seen this happen!
This is just another way of saying what is the most popular opinion on RCTech. Make enough rules to make the motor tuning knowledge of a racer irrelevant, enforce it ruthlessly by making the racers continuously disassemble their car because they have to turn the motor in between rounds, and at the same time make the cars so slow that the guy in last only gets lapped three times instead of five.

If you want to do handout motors, fine. Spec gearing and locked timing on those would be a mistake and detrimental to the cause of producing better racers. The only advantage to making motors need to be turned back in would be to have your racers get better at setting gear mesh.

There just aren't many cheaters, and most are caught immediately. Good racers don't have to cheat.
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:13 PM
  #664  
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
This is just another way of saying what is the most popular opinion on RCTech. Make enough rules to make the motor tuning knowledge of a racer irrelevant, and at the same time make the cars so slow that the guy in last only gets lapped three times instead of five.

If you want to do handout motors, fine. Spec gearing and locked timing on those would be a mistake and detrimental to the cause of producing better racers.
Handout gives better racing action for the 'show': US style rc racing......
13.5 blinky and Mod gives more knowledge and hence better racers: European style rc racing....
Who has the most World Titles???
How many of the European handout racers have World titles???
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Old 11-13-2018, 02:28 PM
  #665  
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Originally Posted by DesertRat View Post
This is just another way of saying what is the most popular opinion on RCTech. Make enough rules to make the motor tuning knowledge of a racer irrelevant, enforce it ruthlessly by making the racers continuously disassemble their car because they have to turn the motor in between rounds, and at the same time make the cars so slow that the guy in last only gets lapped three times instead of five.

If you want to do handout motors, fine. Spec gearing and locked timing on those would be a mistake and detrimental to the cause of producing better racers. The only advantage to making motors need to be turned back in would be to have your racers get better at setting gear mesh.

There just aren't many cheaters, and most are caught immediately. Good racers don't have to cheat.
You are compleetly wrong.....

1) between rounds there is no turn in of the motor, You have no idea how its done...
2) We are not making the cars slow. While in the US you guys are running 17.5T and 21.5T spec motors with which everything can be done to run it as fast as modified we in Europe are running 10.5T and 13.5T with a locked timing and blinky with also a good speed. Again you have no idea...
3) Due a more equal power with a handout system the focus is more on the car setup and the driving instead of getting the most powerfull motor, that does not create better drivers???? Beside that, still there is a modified class if you want maximum speed w/o limiting rules on motor/ESC. Again no good arguement from your side.
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Old 11-13-2018, 03:15 PM
  #666  
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Originally Posted by Roelof View Post
You are compleetly wrong.....


1) between rounds there is no turn in of the motor, You have no idea how its done...

2) We are not making the cars slow. While in the US you guys are running 17.5T and 21.5T spec motors with which everything can be done to run it as fast as modified we in Europe are running 10.5T and 13.5T with a locked timing and blinky with also a good speed. Again you have no idea...

3) Due a more equal power with a handout system the focus is more on the car setup and the driving instead of getting the most powerfull motor, that does not create better drivers???? Beside that, still there is a modified class if you want maximum speed w/o limiting rules on motor/ESC. Again no good arguement from your side.
I don't know how things are run in Europe but in the US there are way too many people who think the best possible spec motor is one that is yawn-inducingly slow. "Slow the cars down, it keeps people from being out of control!" is the argument, then they find that that slow racers are still slow and out of control after switching from 13.5 to 17.5 to 21.5, the finishing order of the racers didn't change and they refuse to admit that bad drivers are just bad drivers and instead choose to blame their motors. If you don't think that they will make you turn in the motor every round, well those dumb Tamiya Trucks they turn in the motors every round, that's the sort of bad idea that sticks because people want any excuse they can find for losing the last round. Also, I disagree with the assertion that this will magically free up the mental capacities of racers and they will be better car tuners, if a racer cant tune suspension and motors at the same time they should probably work on that.

How about we take all of these rules and make Novice the Spec Everything class. For experienced racers there should be a little more to the figuring out the power system of your car than waiting in line for your motor.

But I have no idea because I think that while a handout motor may work fine, the racers should own that motor and be able to adjust timing and gear... like they will have to if they ever put their big boy pants on and go race Stock. Screw me, right?
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:10 PM
  #667  
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Originally Posted by MUDVAYNE View Post
That was when we went to blinky. When we were able to run boost most people I raced with preferred the Tekin for ease of programming. Then we went to blinky and suddenly the ESC wars began. Now it's motors.
Blinky came about because some ESCs had a massive advantage in boost.
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:16 PM
  #668  
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Are you saying that having an advantage through sound craftmanship is cheating ???
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Old 11-13-2018, 05:19 PM
  #669  
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DesertRat-- it's not about "tuning" motors... It's about having equal and legal equipment.

The gear and timing limits in handouts circa 2018 are to drive effective motor reuse thru rentals.

If you haven't seen the inequality in motors or the cheating with larger wire in 2016/7 call yourself lucky.

​​​​​

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Old 11-13-2018, 05:21 PM
  #670  
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Is it me, or are other people thinking the whole handout motor argument is a bit redundant now? If people want to implement it they will, if they don't they won't, you want to race the class, you play by the rules set down by those elected to do so.

Don't like it? Use appropriate channels, because forum and facebook b#tching about it just makes you a target (as I found) and that just opens up more and more bs which is all just too damn hard lol

It's toy cars....
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:40 PM
  #671  
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I decided to do nitro racing for the first time this summer and I didn’t Ever hear anyone complain about one engine vs another or we need to run the same one. It was surreal. I waited and waited but not a word.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:54 PM
  #672  
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Originally Posted by ThrottleKing View Post
I decided to do nitro racing for the first time this summer and I didnít Ever hear anyone complain about one engine vs another or we need to run the same one. It was surreal. I waited and waited but not a word.
probably because the latest ceramic coated o.s. or nova is 550-600, 700 with pipe and header.. Guys tend to stop bitching when its 600 for a motor they can cook in a day
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Old 11-13-2018, 07:03 PM
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Lol
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by nexxus View Post
Is it me, or are other people thinking the whole handout motor argument is a bit redundant now? If people want to implement it they will, if they don't they won't, you want to race the class, you play by the rules set down by those elected to do so.

Don't like it? Use appropriate channels, because forum and facebook b#tching about it just makes you a target (as I found) and that just opens up more and more bs which is all just too damn hard lol

It's toy cars....
Elected or Selected ??? In any case I need to experience it first hand at least in USGT this year at 360v2.....I just hope nobody complains I'm cheating with my tc4.2 ... See you all at the track.....
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Old 11-13-2018, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by miller tyme View Post
OH boy this one is going to blow up
Which classes need it the worst?
How can the motor manufactures still showcase their product?
Cheap fixed/sealed motor or standard motors all set the same?
Does a specific wind matter or a unspecified motor labeled as "stock"? (similar to 360v2.
Tamiya is smart, they created their own racing series for the past 20 years where motors are handout. Also same battery, esc, tires. Classes had limitations on chassis to be allowed. For me, single manufacturer funded spec series was enjoyable (e.g. Kyosho World Cup, Neo Cup, TCS, etc.)
For open manufacturer racing, needed in classes where power is key (mini, stock tc).
But racing is also sometimes a technology/manufacturer battle, not a parity race.
So depends on your goal as an organizer. Promote racing where technological development is part of the excitement of racing (e.g Trinity vs Reedy), or go for varying degrees of parity (spec equipment).
Both already exist in the r/c world with success. It is not one is better than another.
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